Budget Bookshelf Speaker Shootout 2009

[InTheIndustry]

You have uncovered a deep and dark conspiracy. Audioholics the world over thank you for pointing out that an audio store is actually selling speakers.

The Basteria.

EDIT: I'm just trying to suck up to them so that they in their infinite crookedness will rig it so that I win the speaker give away. These are the ways of the world. Take notes if you must.

MORE EDITING: Would you like it better if they sold 3 of the bottom 4 speakers?

A lot of forum members bash on A/V magazines (Stereophile, Sound & Vision, Home Theater, etc.) for reviewing products from companies that advertize with them. AH not only reviews products from companies that advertize with them (Impact Acoustics, RBH, Yamaha, Usher come to mind) but also sells a lot of prioducts it reviews. This is not an attack on AH's reviewing policies, validity, or proceedures but a true fact. I can understand anyone (especially the casual reader) questioning AH giving high marks to gear they sell.

What's fair is fair. Just because we're members & like a lot of aspects of AH, doesn't mean we have all have to "drink the Kool-Aid" so to speak. To bash one's questioning an AH review's validity over the statements I made above is hypocritical IF YOU'VE (not saying "you" specifically, Alex2507) BASHED ANOTHER SOURCES REVIEWS FOR SIMMILAR OR "LIKE" PRACTICES.

I think that AH would do well to take the oportunity & proactively explain their values on this subject matter at every turn possible. If not for anything less than to educate it's readers both faithful & new.

 

[gene]

Interesting that 3 of the top four are speakers that you sell. I don't recall you mentioning that before the test for full disclosure's sake.

Here we go again. Please note the Audioholics Store sells 3 of those speakers NOT the Audioholics site. The Audioholics Store like any of our other advertisers is a client on our site and we offer integrated Buy Now links to all manufacturers whose products we review.

I can see from your post count you are new which either implies ignorance about the site or that your a troll from a competing website or storefront. I am hoping its the former as I am confident if you spend more than 10 minutes reading the content on this site, you won't be questioning the integrity of our reviews or content simply b/c we link up to manufacturers albeit advertisers, store partners or not. I also encourage you to read our forum rules and adhere to them like every other participating member does. thanks.

 

[InTheIndustry]

I really like reviews & shootouts like this. I'm really really big on "value" for any component or system. Value comes in many shapes, sizes, needs, & price points.

I would have loved to see the PSB Alpha B1 thrown into this mix. It's gotten many "Holy Grail" like reviews. It's a great bookshelf & @ $279 per pair retail would have fit nicely in with these pieces.

I also think it's kind of cool that Yamaha has seemingly been trying a little harder to bring back it's speaker business lately.

 

[gene]

I would have loved to see the PSB Alpha B1 thrown into this mix. It's gotten many "Holy Grail" like reviews. It's a great bookshelf & @ $279 per pair retail would have fit nicely in with these pieces.

I also think it's kind of cool that Yamaha has seemingly been trying a little harder to bring back it's speaker business lately.

I can't tell you how many times I've tried to line up NAD/PSB reviews and my emails and phone calls were simply ignored. If you notice those companies have very little web presence for some reason. Its really sad b/c PSB would do very well on our site. I heard and liked their speakers.

The Yamaha Soavo's are nice but way too pricey IMO. After hearing them a few times, I'd say the best in their series is their bookshelf speaker but I am not a big fan of their subwoofer. On a positive note, the fit and finish of those speakers is impressive and I am sure die-hard Yamaha fanatics will be pleased regardless of how they sound

 

[InTheIndustry]

I can't tell you how many times I've tried to line up NAD/PSB reviews and my emails and phone calls were simply ignored. If you notice those companies have very little web presence for some reason. Its really sad b/c PSB would do very well on our site. I heard and liked their speakers.

The Yamaha Soavo's are nice but way too pricey IMO. After hearing them a few times, I'd say the best in their series is their bookshelf speaker but I am not a big fan of their subwoofer. On a positive note, the fit and finish of those speakers is impressive and I am sure die-hard Yamaha fanatics will be pleased regardless of how they sound

Want me to send you some B1's NIB to play with & do a review for a few weeks? PM me & I'll gladly do it as long as you promise to send them back! Don't know how PSB would feel about that, but that's your call.

 

[gene]

Want me to send you some B1's NIB to play with & do a review for a few weeks? PM me & I'll gladly do it as long as you promise to send them back! Don't know how PSB would feel about that, but that's your call.

Are you a PSB dealer? We don't take consumers products in for review. PM me and we will discuss. thanks.

 

[InTheIndustry]

Are you a PSB dealer? We don't take consumers products in for review. PM me and we will discuss. thanks.

!!!PM Sent!!!

 

[stevo238]

"Here we go again. Please note the Audioholics Store sells 3 of those speakers NOT the Audioholics site. The Audioholics Store like any of our other advertisers is a client on our site and we offer integrated Buy Now links to all manufacturers whose products we review.

I can see from your post count you are new which either implies ignorance about the site or that your a troll from a competing website or storefront. I am hoping its the former as I am confident if you spend more than 10 minutes reading the content on this site, you won't be questioning the integrity of our reviews or content simply b/c we link up to manufacturers albeit advertisers, store partners or not. I also encourage you to read our forum rules and adhere to them like every other participating member does. thanks." /quote

I think you're making a mountain out of a mole hill Gene. And judging by your quick reflex to attack me (troll, ignorance...... I mean is that really necessary Gene) I'd say you've made my point for me. Why so sensitive? Most folks would most likely figure there is a business connection when one names their store "Audioholics store" and their forum "Audioholics Forum." That would be like "Stereophile Store" and "Stereophile Forum" hence the idea for full disclosure.

Just because I don't post here very often Gene doesn't mean I don't visit a lot. Gene, I apologize if I've offended you, but it's obvious to me you're extremely touchy. I will take your reviews here on in with a grain of salt.

 

[gene]

I will take your reviews here on in with a grain of salt.

That's a good idea in general with all reviews from all publications, forums, news sources, etc, in all industries. Everyone has a motive. My motivation right now is to goto sleep

 

[Matt34]

Thread cleaned up, let's stay on track.

 

[lsiberian]

I would prefer a store would review products it actually sales.

I would like to know what the best product they offer is. Plus if the product sucks I bet they will stop selling it.

Just my 0.02$.

Why assume they are crooks? Isn't it better to give people a chance before you conclude something negative about them. Besides I know these guys are passionate about this stuff and not just in it for money.

I bet they could make more money doing something else.

 

[Pyrrho]

I would prefer a store would review products it actually sales.

I would like to know what the best product they offer is. Plus if the product sucks I bet they will stop selling it.

Just my 0.02$.

Why assume they are crooks? Isn't it better to give people a chance before you conclude something negative about them. Besides I know these guys are passionate about this stuff and not just in it for money.

I bet they could make more money doing something else.

I prefer reviews from sources that do not sell or advertise. There is always the worry that such things might unduly influence the reviews whenever there is money to be gained by saying something. This is one of the reasons I like Consumer Reports, because they don't get any advertising money and have nothing to gain by you buying any particular item they review. Unfortunately, they don't review equipment of the level that is of interest to me, and, of course, sometimes things that matter to them don't matter to me, though they reveal such things in their articles.

Interestingly enough, many "audiophiles" don't like them, probably because they don't spout a lot of BS, and are unimpressed by things irrelevant to the sound (brand name, number of drivers in a speaker, etc.). They always give great advice regarding speakers, as they always tell you to listen before you buy, as two speakers that measure to be nearly equal in quality may sound quite different. Of course, that is because their flaws are different from each other, and some flaws matter to some people more than others.

As for this site, I think it is better than most audio sites, or I simply would not be here. If you are into vintage gear, www.audiokarma.com is a source of great information, though one needs to be more on guard for subjective nonsense there than here (though there is more than enough subjective nonsense people post here for my taste).

Gene's remark that all reviews should be taken with a grain of salt is excellent advice. I strongly recommend that everyone pay attention to that bit of advice. Reviewers may care about things that you don't care about. Always think carefully before making up your mind. Unless, of course, you like being a sucker.

 

[tsteves]

I don't think it's a coincidence that print magazines in this field generally review products from advertisers. And it's true Audioholics Gives good reviews to products it sells in their online store. I do think a big part of the reason for Audioholics giving good reviews to certain products and also carrying these same products in their store is because they think the products are good.
That said, I think this was a very well done, honest shootout, but, I wish there were more major contenders in the category included. Like Paradigm, NHT, B&W, etc. I wish more manufacturers would contribute samples for review. If given the chance I think they'd get a very fair review. To not do so, would destroy the magazines credibility. I don't think that is a likely scenario at all.

 

[tsteves]

Pyrrho
agread, but relative to CR:
Consumer Reports tells you why you "should" love a car.(they have links to websites to buy your car)
Edmunds will tell you if you "will" love a car. (they have links to websites to buy your car)
Driving it will tell you if you "do" love a car. (er... no, no links or easy escape from the salesman!)

 

[gene]

That said, I think this was a very well done, honest shootout, but, I wish there were more major contenders in the category included. Like Paradigm, NHT, B&W, etc. I wish more manufacturers would contribute samples for review. If given the chance I think they'd get a very fair review. To not do so, would destroy the magazines credibility. I don't think that is a likely scenario at all.

Most companies will NOT submit product samples once they know a face off is involved. Definitive, Harman and Klipsch for example are three of the big brands that won't participate in this. According to the marketing guy at Definitive there is only 1 winner and everyone else ties for second place. LOL.

That being said, we have many other bookshelf face off reviews, far more comprehensive than this one that include many of the other brands. I suggest doing a search in our review section. We typically do one or two of these per year.... and every year people whine that we didn't include their brand

I do think a big part of the reason for Audioholics giving good reviews to certain products and also carrying these same products in their store is because they think the products are good.

We review less than 5% of the products sold in the Audioholics E-store, mostly b/c we are too busy covering other brands, many of which do NOT advertise on our site, such as Aperion, Thiel, Dali, etc. That being said, there are several negative product reviews of stuff caried on the store such as a Kenwood and Harman receiver review and a Toshiba display. I encourage you to check. We try to guide our store partners into what products we feel are good (performance and value) for them to integrate them into the store but it doesn't always work out.

On a different note, I encourage people to search other online and print magazines for truly critical / negative reviews. Chances are you won't find any. In the past, we used to be brutally honest when we though a product was terrible. All that lead to was us being bashed on AVS Forum, latest example when I did the Pioneer SC-07 review, which incidentally Pioneer has advertised on this site and we have great relations with them. Another example was people not liking Tom's "ugly" comments on Emotiva speakers he reviewed.

The crux of the situation is people that own a particular product don't want to see a negative review. We do our best to pick products we think will review well so we don't waste our time, the manufacturers time, or get the fanboys upset when their product gets trashed. There are still serveral companies that won't submit products to us for review b/c they feel we are too critical. Imagine that. They opt to not get coverage on the industries largest publication simply b/c they want a guaranteed glowing review....

 

[fredk]

I actually thought it was good that different brands were covered. When people come here they are looking for options, not just a recommendation for one of the big brands.

For instance. It was interesting to read that the Behringer stands up to other brands as some here on the boards have suggested. Its another data point that validates a speaker that offers very good value. That is exactly what this site should be about.

It would be nice to see some sort of tie in to the other rounds of reviews, but that is probably hard to do.

 

[tsteves]

Thanks Gene, I'll search for more shootouts. They are hard to do, and it's true there are always whiners about brands excluded. Not trying to be one of those....

True about the estore issues, I am a big fan of the podcast as well, and Tom has gone over these problems ad nauseum. Hopefully you'll improve your luck with some of these companies after they see reviews of upper tier brands like Dali, Theil, Aperion and others. It's hard for the old schoolers to realize that most people reading about this stuff are doing so online. And it sure is a VAST majority.

 

[jtokach]

How do all these compare against the BIC DV62Si's?

I'm in the market for a set of bookshelf mains and a sub for a room 15x20. (60% video use, 40% music)

My budget is $350 for the three pieces. I'm considering the 62's ($109), and the BIC H100 sub ($259).

For the source, I'm leaning heavily towards the Harman Kardon AVR-254. ($370)

All recommendations are really appreciated.

 

[GomGom]

So what is the verdict?

 

[3db]

Budget bookshelf speakers are a great first step into the world of high fidelity. But which ones to choose? A few of our forum members decided to take on the daunting task of comparing some of the more popular (and available) affordable bookshelf speakers. The list included Yamaha NS-6490, Polk Audio R15, Behringer B2030P, Yamaha NS-333, Aperion Audio Intimus 4B, Infinity Primus P162, EMP EF30, and more! The results may surprise you as spending more money doesn't always equate to better performance.

Discuss "Budget Bookshelf Speaker Shootout 2009" here. Read the arte.

How are the entries selected in the shootout? I didn't see entries from PSB, Paradigm, Axiom in this shootout. Did they decline your invitation? Did they get invited?