Bought an external amp and not noticing a big different in power

[allEars]

as per the title. I just picked up an Anthem A2 amp that I am using to run the front speakers.
When running the speaker through the receiver's amp, I could only go up to -10db before the receiver would go into "protect mode". Now I can go much higher without any problems. The sound is also "sharper" but one thing that is surprising me is that the external amp doesn't seem much louder than the receiver's app when the volume is set to the same value, lets say -15db. The receiver has 105w per channel and this external amp is 225w per channel. What am I missing here.... sorry new to this Home theater hobby.

 

[Adam]

Hi. We can have a better idea if you list the model number of your receiver, but my belief is that the volume setting is relative to some reference level. So, -10dB is intended to give a certain loudness. If you calibrated the speaker levels after hooking up the new amp (and you'll probably be very close even if you didn't), then -10dB with the amp should give you the same loudness in your room as -10dB did with the receiver.

In other words, your speakers should sound as loud at the same setting on the receiver's volume knob. However, like you stated, the external amp is allowing you to play it at higher levels without having the receiver shut off. So, everything is running the way it should, and you actually did get an improvement with your new purchase. Congrats!

 

[mtrycrafts]

as per the title. I just picked up an Anthem A2 amp that I am using to run the front speakers.
When running the speaker through the receiver's amp, I could only go up to -10db before the receiver would go into "protect mode". Now I can go much higher without any problems. The sound is also "sharper" but one thing that is surprising me is that the external amp doesn't seem much louder than the receiver's app when the volume is set to the same value, lets say -15db. The receiver has 105w per channel and this external amp is 225w per channel. What am I missing here.... sorry new to this Home theater hobby.

You just cannot compare amps in such a manner as you are trying to do. Doesn't work. amp input sensitivity has a great deal to do with this, probably other things as well.
And, don't forget 2x power that you have is only a 3 dB spl change, not a lot.
If you want a noticeable difference, try an amp that is 10x bigger in power output.

 

[allEars]

Hi. We can have a better idea if you list the model number of your receiver, but my belief is that the volume setting is relative to some reference level. So, -10dB is intended to give a certain loudness. If you calibrated the speaker levels after hooking up the new amp (and you'll probably be very close even if you didn't), then -10dB with the amp should give you the same loudness in your room as -10dB did with the receiver.

In other words, your speakers should sound as loud at the same setting on the receiver's volume knob. However, like you stated, the external amp is allowing you to play it at higher levels without having the receiver shut off. So, everything is running the way it should, and you actually did get an improvement with your new purchase. Congrats!

thank you Adam, you are correct. I did run the calibration setup again but the values didn't change by much. The -10 I was referring to is the number displayed when changing the volume. The receiver is a Marantz 7500 and the speakers are Paradigm Studios 60.

You just cannot compare amps in such a manner as you are trying to do. Doesn't work. amp input sensitivity has a great deal to do with this, probably other things as well.
And, don't forget 2x power that you have is only a 3 dB spl change, not a lot.

only a 3db increase, I didn't know that. Lots to learn, part of the fun.

 

[WmAx]

thank you Adam, you are correct. I did run the calibration setup again but the values didn't change by much. The -10 I was referring to is the number displayed when changing the volume. The receiver is a Marantz 7500 and the speakers are Paradigm Studios 60.



only a 3db increase, I didn't know that. Lots to learn, part of the fun.

Don't worry. 6dB is true doubling of SPL. You just need 4x the power to do that....

-Chris

 

[rnatalli]

Return the Anthem and buy a Behringer EP2500 or Yamaha Pro amp for your mains. That's all the power you'll ever need.

 

[brad1138]

Although it is only a 3 db increase, it is a lot more and, higher quality, power. You should/will notice a difference in the bass and "fullness". 225 wpc is a lot of power especially into a pair of relatively efficient speakers. I think mtrycrafts was kidding but don't try to find a 1000 wpc amp, thats ridiculous. There is no reason to return your amp unless you think it is "cheap". A quick search shows that to be a good amp. also if http://www.avguide.com/product/paradigm/studio-60-v5-3-wayfour-driver-floorstanding-loudspeaker these are the speakers, they are 92db efficient which is pretty good, 225 should be all the power you need.

Brad

 

[3db]

Anthem makes VERY GOOD amplifiers . There is nothing wrong with your amp.

 

[MDS]

Besides the fact that doubling the power only yields a +3 dB increase in SPL (noticeable, but not dramatic), just because the amp is rated at 225 wpc does not mean that it is delivering 225 wpc any more than the receiver's amp section is delivering 105 wpc. Most of the time both amps will be delivering a few tens of watts.

It's only at very high levels when playing something with extreme transients, which can require up to 10x more power at that instant to reproduce correctly, that an external amp will really shine because it will still be loafing along while the receiver's amps will be working their butt off.

 

[agarwalro]

as per the title. I just picked up an Anthem A2 amp that I am using to run the front speakers.
When running the speaker through the receiver's amp, I could only go up to -10db before the receiver would go into "protect mode". Now I can go much higher without any problems. The sound is also "sharper" but one thing that is surprising me is that the external amp doesn't seem much louder than the receiver's app when the volume is set to the same value, lets say -15db. The receiver has 105w per channel and this external amp is 225w per channel. What am I missing here.... sorry new to this Home theater hobby.

If your speakers are consuming 100Wpc during a certain passage, it would not matter if the power came from the AVR or the A2. So you cannot tell the difference between the two sources of speaker power by way of loudness alone.

What you do gain is, only, quality of amplification and headroom. These two gains have already been noticed by you, namely, "sharper" sound and the ability to play louder without the amp running out of power, thereby going into clipping (what caused the protection circuit on the AVR to kick in).

 

[markw]

It sounds like everything is operating just as it should.

The "extra" power you added will only show itself on momentary peaks.

It won't/shouldn't affect your normal listening level but it should give you a bit more headroom for when you really, really need it.

FWIW, when listening at a "normal" level, I'd be very surprised if you use more than a very few watts. It's the momentary peaks that draw the power.

 

[WmAx]

I think mtrycrafts was kidding but don't try to find a 1000 wpc amp, thats ridiculous.

Ridiculous?! My main stereo active speakers get a total of 950 watts RMS per stereo channel. My studio monitor speakers get 1050 RMS per stereo channel. Do you mean to say that's ridiculous?

I know not what clipping is....

-Chris

 

[lsiberian]

A lot has been said of the momentary peaks. Much of which I find hard to believe. 3db is all you gain in said increase which is relatively insignificant.

But you don't buy an external amp just for the power. I like to think of Amps kind of like watches. Just because you get a Rolex doesn't mean you suddenly have a more accurate watch than a Timex. But chances are a nicer watch will have better quality parts, a better look, and look better. This can be the case with Amps as well. The reality is there is not a huge difference in anything soundwise despite the owners of external amps attempts to make such appear to be the case. Double Blind testing has demonstrated this numerous times.

However if you get a high quality amp you are going to have a more reliable amp, that's less likely to break.

I do suggest checking out benchmark tests when considering amps to buy. I don't suggest any kind of listening test unless it's a level matched double blind test. There is no other way to test amps sonically IMO.

you might be surprised at how different amps benchmark.

 

[rramacha]

Stupid question

I was using the same receiver Marantz SR 7500 and when added an external amp Sherbourn 7/2100A the power gain was really big and soundstage opened up. Does it come down then to whether the amplifier power mentioned is ACD or 2 channel only?

This may be stupid I am a newbie and just interested to see what makes the difference?

 

[mtrycrafts]

...Just because you get a Rolex doesn't mean you suddenly have a more accurate watch than a Timex. But chances are a nicer watch will have better quality parts, a better look, and look better. ....

Yes, yes and yes

 

[mtrycrafts]

I was using the same receiver Marantz SR 7500 and when added an external amp Sherbourn 7/2100A the power gain was really big and soundstage opened up. Does it come down then to whether the amplifier power mentioned is ACD or 2 channel only?

This may be stupid I am a newbie and just interested to see what makes the difference?

No reason for soundstage to be altered except by human bias and imagined differences.
All channels driven is not very useful as you would only do that when you send a mono signal of equal intensity to all the channels. In movies it is yet to happen, or with other music that you drive all the channels to equal level at the same instant.

 

[davidtwotrees]

I've been running a Parasound HCA2003 for some time now in various configurations with different pre pros/receivers. I've recently purchased an Onkyo and have come to the conclusion that I can't tell the difference in my day to day listening between with the 200wpc amp and just using the receivers amps. The Parasound looked way cool sitting on a black lacquered Japanese table between my two silver Canton towers.......but looks alone can't make the grade. The amp is going on the block...........

 

[mtrycrafts]

I've been running a Parasound HCA2003 for some time now in various configurations with different pre pros/receivers. I've recently purchased an Onkyo and have come to the conclusion that I can't tell the difference in my day to day listening between with the 200wpc amp and just using the receivers amps. The Parasound looked way cool sitting on a black lacquered Japanese table between my two silver Canton towers.......but looks alone can't make the grade. The amp is going on the block...........

Yes, they do look very good indeed

 

[rramacha]

No reason for soundstage to be altered except by human bias and imagined differences.
All channels driven is not very useful as you would only do that when you send a mono signal of equal intensity to all the channels. In movies it is yet to happen, or with other music that you drive all the channels to equal level at the same instant.

I agree ACD in real world listening is useless as all channels never get taxed. I think my point was moot. I am again not an expert to say why I feel the sound stage altered/better, may be to make me feel good about dropping a wad of cash on the amp.

 

[PENG]

I agree ACD in real world listening is useless as all channels never get taxed. I think my point was moot. I am again not an expert to say why I feel the sound stage altered/better, may be to make me feel good about dropping a wad of cash on the amp.

That could be part of it. I always wanted to own a couple of Mcintosh preamp/amps, or at least the more affordable Bryston gear because of their perceived quality. It took years before I was ready to admit it is all in their looks and feels of quality, otherwise it is close enough to say they all sound the same.