Bookshelf vs. Floorstanding?

[Darrenmc]

Can bookshelf speakers compete with floorstanding speakers in a small to mid-size room? Other than the obvious of wanting more power out of your speakers are there any other benefits to owning floorstanding speakers vs. bookshelf speakers? Where is the cutoff to move up to a larger floorstanding speaker? Any opinions would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[mike c]

I believe the "cutoff" for most is ...

if you listen to music WITHOUT a sub. naturally, you're gonna want more bass.

 

[robot]

It's really a personal decision as to how much bass you like to listen to, and how much your neighbors/flatmates/siblings/wives can tolerate. Personally I would probably be fine with a good set of bookshelves in a small room because sound quality is much more important to me than having a lot of bass. In a mid size room I would prefer small towers, like the ones I have right now, for my small/mid size room.

 

[Davemcc]

In a small room, you may also have to consider obstructions. like furniture. In my room, floorstanding towers would have been driving right into the arm of the couch, so I went with bookshelves on stands to get the drivers up over that obstruction and filled the bass in with a sub.

I did listen to floorstanders whenever I had the chance during my auditions and I'm fully prepared to say that my current set-up does not lack anything in the performance dep't that floorstanders could offer.

 

[mazersteven]

A bookshelf like the Polk LSi9 puts out a surprising amount of bass. More then some floorstanders do.

It also comes down to what a person can afford.

 

[bradandbree]

Hi all,
It seemed smarter to resurrect this thread than begin another one with essentially the same question; my apologies if that's "bad manners" here.

I bought a pair of Paradigm Studio 20 v.3 about a year ago for my mains. I went in asking about the Studio 100s, but when the dealer asked how far away I'll be from the speakers and about how large the room was, he said the 100s would probably be too large for my room. What I failed to mention to him is that the home theater room is an unusual shape and there's actually more space behind the "listening area" than there is in it. I was just moving into the house and couldn't recall specific dimensions.

For movies at any level I've tried in my house, and for audio at typical listening levels, these speakers are spectacular. In particular, my SACD and DVD-Audio multichannel recordings are just incredible. But as the volume of the (2-channel) music increases, the quality of the music starts to suffer a bit, sounding almost harsh for lack of a better word. I'm using a very good receiver, a Yamaha RX-V1, so I don't believe power is the problem. And it's not bass that's the issue; I've got more sub than I'll ever need. I think maybe my room is too big for my speakers.

The problem is, I can't seem to find a guide to cubic feet of air versus speaker size, so I don't know what a "big" room is or if mine qualifies. The image below is a small version of a scale floorplan I drew of the room, and if you click on it, you'll get a larger version of the same image (~800x700 pixels, ~56 kb)



Ceilings are 7.5', and this is part of the "basement" of a split-level home where the downstairs is about 50% below ground. I did a ballpark estimate of cubic feet in the room at 3300.

As you'll see, the listening position is about 10' in front of the speakers, but there's another 10' of room behind that--and the room gets wider. I don't know if the volume of air that plays into the "room size" equation is the volume between me and my speakers or in the entire room. Ok, so background aside, here's my question:

Will my room accommodate floor-standing speakers like Studio 100s (or even something like the Studio 40s on shorter stands)? Or does it sound like something else is the problem here? I'm a big fan of Paradigms, but I've read a lot of good things about Axioms on these boards and I'd be willing to audition some. I just don't want to feel like there's limits on how far I can go with my music. Any help, advice, or suggestions would be much appreciated, and I'll gladly provide any other relevant information I didn't think to include here.

Thanks a lot.

 

[zumbo]

Can bookshelf speakers compete with floorstanding speakers in a small to mid-size room? Other than the obvious of wanting more power out of your speakers are there any other benefits to owning floorstanding speakers vs. bookshelf speakers? Where is the cutoff to move up to a larger floorstanding speaker? Any opinions would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

It all depends on which bookshelf is compared to which floorstander.

Floorstanders don't put out "more power". The loudness of a speaker is determined by the sensitivity spec. Also, "more power" depends on the receiver/amp in use.

I would say that a floorstander taken from the same line in a brand would be better than it's bookshelf brother. However, a bookshelf taken from a higher line in the same brand may be better than the floorstander.

In this example, the bookshelf is better.
B&W 805s. $1249.95 each.
http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=1153&sc=hf

B&W 704. $1099.95 each.
http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=1097&terid=1113&sc=hf


If you compared the 704(floorstander) to the 705(bookshelf)http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=1096&terid=1107&sc=hf, the 704 would be my pick.

 

[mazersteven]

Excellent Post and Example Zumbo


bradandbree,

If I am correct, your room size, and volume is less critical with speakers then with a subwoofer. In home theater applications, small bookshelf speakers can fill a large room with sound. My knowledge about sound waves, and distance is not good. But I would imagine that no matter what speaker you use, towers, or bookshelf's. After a certain distance either speakers wouldn't sound good.

IMO I don't think the 100's are to large for your situation. After all, your the one controlling the volume levels. I don't think you need them since you'll be crossing over the low frequencies to the sub. A good bookshelf paired with a excellent subwoofer would give you an excellent experience. It's all a personal choice.

In your situation I would highly recommend acoustic treatments.

Now with subwoofers you need to be able to fill the volume of the entire area. So you have to take into consideration the volume of the room and choose the appropriate sub.

 

[Davemcc]

bradandbree,

I'm not a big Paradigm fan and I found the Studio 20's to be harsh in my own auditions. If they sound spectacular to you, that's all that counts as far as choosing a speaker. They are capable of filling the space that you have, especially sitting only 10ft away, and capable of handling the 110wpc that your receiver is putting out. No need to replace the speakers.

I think you need to identify the variables that might cause your speakers to go from spectacular to harsh as volume increases. One variable might be distortion from clipping at higher volumes, but your receiver does have a very good amp section so I would look elsewhere first. Another more likely variable is the room itself. The room may be reflecting sound waves back to your ears at higher volumes that might dissipate or be absorbed at lower volumes. What you are calling harshness may be a function of those reflected sounds arriving at your ears at different times, causing a slurring or sibilance in high frequency perception.

I will second mazersteven's recommendation of room treatments.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

I had some very expensive bookshelves (B&W 705s.) I sold them and bought floorstanders for about 1/2 as much MSRP (paid less on sale. Boston VR2s.) I like them better. Better bass, stronger dynamics, more of a live feel, and just simply a "bigger" sound overall.

 

[budbrande]

Can bookshelf speakers compete with floorstanding speakers in a small to mid-size room? Other than the obvious of wanting more power out of your speakers are there any other benefits to owning floorstanding speakers vs. bookshelf speakers? Where is the cutoff to move up to a larger floorstanding speaker? Any opinions would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Check out the Audioholics review section on the Jamo C803 bookshelf speakers. If you have the amplifier to drive them you would be quite suprised just how good a pair of bookshelf speakers can really sound. I own the C809 towers and am considering a pair of the 803's for my bedroom as soon as my bank account recovers from my recent spending spree!

 

[monsteraudio]

infinity beta 20's provide a surprising amount of bass for a bookshelf speaker

 

[croseiv]

Yes, and with a good sub they (bookshelf speakers) can out perform floorstanders, especially when it comes to imaging.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

I have yet to hear bookshelves that can provide the effortless dynamics and sense of "presence" that even modest floorstanders can. I am also not convinced by the claim that small speakers image better, since my floorstanders image very well indeed (albeit after a fair amount of fiddling with position and toe-in.)

 

[Davemcc]

I have yet to hear bookshelves that can provide the effortless dynamics and sense of "presence" that even modest floorstanders can.

Keep looking.

 

[jinjuku]

My personal preference is to go with a manufactures floor standing units over their bookshelf brethren. Imaging has more to do with quality of drivers and alignment then box volume.

Does the argument for book shelf speakers and imaging comes from flexibility to be able to place them vs a floor standing unit? Is that the actual point that book shelf proponents are trying to get across? Or is it some other facet of book shelf units they are proposing makes them better?

 

[Alexxus]

In a small to mid-size room I'd personally stick with bookshelves. As it happens I've tried both and IMO a good quality bookshelf speaker is actually better for a small(ish) room.

I have quite a large living room (about 600 sqft) and I still use a pair of bookshelf speakers for stereo music, even though I got a pair of floorstanders that I use for movies. Mind you, my bookshelf speakers are a class above the floorstanders, so I'd rather have detail than oomph, if you see what I mean.

My honest opinion is that the extra dough that goes on a floorstander is better used to buy a higher range bookshelf, especially since we're talking about a small/mid size room.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Keep looking.

If I ever do find any (especially at a reasonable price), I will be both surprised and impressed.

 

[Davemcc]

If I ever do find any (especially at a reasonable price), I will be both surprised and impressed.

They are out there. Some bookshelves are simply the top end of a tower that is built and sold as a bookshelf. The characteristics of those bookshelves (in the frequency range of the drivers) should be identical to the towers, especially in the case of towers that seal off the lower portion of the cabinet to isolate the mid/high drivers from the bass. Add a sub to fill in the bass of the bookshelf and the "presence" of the bookshelves should be identical to the towers.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Examples? I have heard (and in some cases owned) bookshelf speakers ranging from $200-$1500/pr from Athena, KRK, Infinity, B&W, Klipsch, Polk, Boston, and Pardigm among others. None hold a candle to my Boston VR2s ($800 MSRP) in any respect, and most are outperformed in terms of presence and dynamics even by the $250/pr Athena F1s (though they may excel in other areas.)