Book Shelfs vs. Tower Speakers

[Humble1]

Hello Everyone,

I am in the market to purchase my first HT system. The system will be for movies and video games and I am not too concerned with music (at least at this time). I have been reading/researching a lot on the web and one thing I come across is book shelves vs. towers. I really have no idea which is better. From what I understand towers are 3-way but if you have a good sub it kind of defects the purpose of buying/owning towers. I know this subject is very open as we all have our own taste in speakers. Any information or help would be appreciated.

Room/Equipment information:

Pioneer 1019
Room size 14 x 15

 

[fightinkraut]

You pretty much have it. Towers look nice, are typically 3 way, bookshelves are typically 2 way and need a little more care with placement, but you can typically get a better sounding system with bookshelves+sub then towers+sub. I went with towers due to children running around and the wife wasn't sure about stability of speaker+stands, but otherwise I would have gone with bookshelves.

I'm sure it will come up, so here's a post by WmAx with a great suggestion:

"Seriously.... Get 3 pairs of Behringer B2030P 2 way monitors : LINK : ($150 per pair) + 2 of the Dayton 12" powered subwoofers :LINK : ($80 each on sale)

These monitors are vastly superior to any Bose speaker, and I mean this in a provable/objective manner. In fact, this 2 way speaker is superior to any other retail produce anywhere near it's price, to my knowledge, based on provable/objective critieria. The subs offer the best value for the $$ possible. You need two of them for 2 reasons: (1) Louder SPL and lower distortion on music or movie peaks like explosions, etc. (2) Using one on each side of the room allow for far better integration - the 2 way speakers will act like 3 ways with no seem in between for music playback. BTW, you can make the sub sound 'tighter' for music, if so desired, by simply adding in a common cheap $3 polyester filled bed pillow in each cabinet. An easy and reversible cheap modification that will really increase the bass sound quality for music.

All you need now is a decent home theater receiver with a decent built in active crossover. Set all speakers to SMALL and set xover to 80-100Hz and you will be good to do. Since you will have two subs, one on each side of room, 100Hz is a better choice for crossover point selection.

No how, no way, are you going to get anywhere near the performance for the dollars spent buying new equipment if you choose any other 2 way speakers.

If the speakers are too large or ugly, you can substitute them with Infinity Primus P152 2 ways. These may cost a bit more - but are smaller and offer great performance for the $$. They don't have the superb wide dispersion, extension, smooth treble or dynamic range of the Behringer units, but they are smaller and look better. You need to use 100-120Hz crosover point using these speakers if you want to have ability to do considerable dynamics in movies. With the dual subs - 120 Hz is not a problem. Just keep each sub within 3-4 feet near each main Left and Right speaker.

-Chris"

Source. Post #8.

 

[m_vanmeter]

depending on the series, towers can often be 2-way as well as 3-way.

The practical way to look at it is.... if you will need to buy stands for the bookshelf units, you might as well get towers. If you are not going to use a powered subwoofer, get full spectrum towers. If you are going to use a subwoofer, then 2-way bookshelf OR 2-way towers will work fine. In this case there really is not much difference between the two other than esthetics.

I personally like the tower configuration because I hate to mount speakers on top of spindly stands. I have even used 2-way towers for surrounds in a layout where there was no convenient furniture to hold bookshelf surrounds.

Ultimately, the choice is yours. Which one is "better" is purely a matter of what you like and what fits your room layout.

 

[Humble1]

Hey M_V & fight,

Thanks for the response. I was looking into tower speakers because of what M_v said. If I got book shelfs I would need to buy the stands as well and in some cases that cost would equal out or come close to be the costs of tower speakers. Thanks again.

 

[fightinkraut]

Hey M_V & fight,

Thanks for the response. I was looking into tower speakers because of what M_v said. If I got book shelfs I would need to buy the stands as well and in some cases that cost would equal out or come close to be the costs of tower speakers. Thanks again.

Another quick thought...I had a great time building stands for about $40. Took a few hours, desk post cut in half, mdf cut into 8x8 and 9x9 sections, glue/screws, crackle black paint, and they look great. Fun Saturday project if that's what fits you.

Then I bought the EMP impression towers, and I must admit, they look *slightly* nicer.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You get what you pay for.

It costs more money to build those larger speaker cabinets.

Instead of putting a lot of that money into the larger speaker cabinets, they could allocate that money into better smaller cabinets or better drivers, etc.

I think if you are going to spend $2K/pr or more on speakers, then towers make more sense.

Otherwise, getting 5 identical bookshelf speakers + a Sub make more sense to me.

 

[Matt34]

I like TLS Guy's advice in this other thread:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=655382&postcount=19

 

[lsiberian]

I like TLS Guy's advice in this other thread:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=655382&postcount=19

Agreed build a great 2 channel system first. Then add to it.

If you want towers I suggest you get a pair of Primus towers and mod them according to Wmax's suggestions(adding constraint layer, concrete, rockwool and dense oak bracing.

 

[JerryLove]

The practical way to look at it is.... if you will need to buy stands for the bookshelf units, you might as well get towers.

This is not even remotely true. Starting with the fact that two different speakers aren't the same. You cannot aribtrarily replace "some bookshelf" with "some other tower" if performance is an issue.

Because they are smaller, most bookshelves are more rigid than their tower counterparts. You will get better sound from a pair of bookshelves with a stereo pair of subs than from an otherwise comparable pair of towers.

Where do you get towers?
Well, on the high end (B&W 802), especially with music listening. You might also if you know that they are very well dampted (me and the customs I'll be getting), or if you are not going to be able to do subs properly (or at all).

If you are not going to use a powered subwoofer, get full spectrum towers. If you are going to use a subwoofer, then 2-way bookshelf OR 2-way towers will work fine. In this case there really is not much difference between the two other than esthetics.

I disagree quite a bit.

There are reasons to use towers: a love of the particular speaker, esthetics, a need to avoid subs and yet get some low extensions: but at most price points there are also trade-offs in sound.

 

[tcarcio]

What is your budget?

 

[Humble1]

Hey Tcarcio,

My budget is $1500 - $2000. I was about to purchase the STS-01 from SVS for around $1800 shipped. But I ran across some boards, including this one saying that book shelf’s maybe the way to go over towers.

 

[walter duque]

You will get better sound from a pair of bookshelves with a stereo pair of subs than from an otherwise comparable pair of towers.

I have to agree with you on that one. I prefere most of the time to listen to my rear surrounds (bookshelves) $1800.-- and my 2 subs then to listen to my front towers $5000.-- when I listening to stereo music. I use the fronts when I really need some chest pounding (120db+). But for normal listening the bookshelves and the subs sound great.

 

[tcarcio]

Hey Tcarcio,

My budget is $1500 - $2000. I was about to purchase the STS-01 from SVS for around $1800 shipped. But I ran across some boards, including this one saying that book shelf’s maybe the way to go over towers.

Well I think it all depends on what you like as far as building your Home theater. Sound is first and then estetics or what would look better in your home. Sound is something that is different for alot of people,what sounds good to me might not sound good to you. I use full range fronts that go fairly low in the frequency range and that let's my subs do less work. I can crossover lower and ,IMO, it sounds better that way. All I can say is try to audition as many different brands as you can in as close to the environment that they will be in. Difficult to do sometimes but it really is the only way to hear what sounds best to you. If you cant do that then you read the review's, which I am sure you are doing, and try to make the best decision you can. My advice would be to take your time and look at all your options. Including used. Sometimes for the money you can get something that is worth alot more or higher end from someone who is upgrading and looking to cut a deal. Checkhttp://www.audiogon.com/ for some idea's. Who knows you might find something that you thought you couldn't afford for the money you have. Good luck.

 

[tcarcio]

I would take these over a bookshelf speaker anyday, but that's just me.http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1263345023

 

[walter duque]

[

QUOTE=tcarcio;655732]I would take these over a bookshelf speaker anyday, but that's just me.http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1263345023

[/QUOTE]

I hate to say this but these bookshelves by Cinepro would give the Legacy a runs for the money. I would take the Cinepro bookshelves over the Legacy any time. I am familiar with both. Seriously they blow the Legacy's away.
http://www.hometheatermag.com/floorloudspeakers/108cine/

 

[JerryLove]

I would take these over a bookshelf speaker anyday, but that's just me.http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1263345023

Really? I might prefer these: http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=461583&postcount=25

I'd certainly take my chances with Chris's new bookshelf project, if it ever completes, but that's cheating because they are full range.

I am curious how much time you spent listening to those speakers, since you are certain they are better than any bookshelf/sub combo. I notice the dipolar design: did you have any trouble with placement given the distance you need to put those out from a rear wall? How were the crossovers? Did the pressure from the bass unit cause any problems with the midrange or was the compartment sealed? Are their resonance meausrments on that speaker? I assume that the drivers performed well off axis?

 

[tcarcio]

Really? I might prefer these: http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=461583&postcount=25

I'd certainly take my chances with Chris's new bookshelf project, if it ever completes, but that's cheating because they are full range.

I am curious how much time you spent listening to those speakers, since you are certain they are better than any bookshelf/sub combo. I notice the dipolar design: did you have any trouble with placement given the distance you need to put those out from a rear wall? How were the crossovers? Did the pressure from the bass unit cause any problems with the midrange or was the compartment sealed? Are their resonance meausrments on that speaker? I assume that the drivers performed well off axis?

Well like I said what sounds good to me might not sound good to you. I have listened to many style speakers and they all have their own nuance's but as of today I have never heard a bookshelf speaker that sounds as good as a full range tower speaker like in my link to audiogone. I never heard those particular speakers but I have owned dipolar speakers in my HT and they sounded great and with ecoustic treatment sounded even better TO ME. I didn't say as you suggested that they are better then any bookshelf speaker, I said that I would take them over any bookshelf speaker and that is just my opinion. Also if you go into a high end audio store with complete set ups in the 5 figure range it will be hard to find one that is based on bookshelfs, at least I haven't seen any. I am only voicing my opinion and not trying to prove anything.

 

[JerryLove]

My issue is less with your taste in sound, an more with your generalization. You've generalized what bookshelves sound like, and what towers sound like and done it in a way that I don't find very accruate.

Yes. A tower with generally go lower at SPL than a given bookshelf of comparable build. That's why I've recommended dual subs.

With the sub set within a half-wavelength of the bookshelf, properly crossed, they act as a single speaker; but because the woofer is completely decoupled from the enlcosure of the mid and tweeter, you have reduced the resonance problems in upper frequencies. The subwoofer doesn't generate those frequencies, and the bookshelf is less resonant than the comparable tower because of a higher relative stiffness.

Of course anyone's personal preference for sound may vary: you may like to put on a tube amp and drive it to distortion; but what is very interesting to me is that you've already decided that one speaker you've never heard is better (to your ear) than any of another group of speakers you've never heard, and I cannot find the basis for that belief.

All that said: your advice "listen and decide what you like" is very true.

*edit* again, I'm not traying to disagree with your statement of what you like. I own several sets of towers myseld (Paradugm Studio 60s, at least until I sell them), a pair of infinities, and a pair of almost-complete custom re-builds. One nice thing is that the work of integrating HF and LF was already done for you by the manufacturer.

 

[Davemcc]

I agree with Jerry, re: resonance issues between towers and bookshelves. I prefer bookshelves and have a very hard time finding towers that I like. When comparing b/s vs. towers in the same line and brand of speaker, I invariably prefer the bookshelf version, probably due to the very reasons Jerry mentions.

My take on when to get towers:
If you buy a transmission line design, such as the Salk Songtower.
If you cannot have subwoofers.
If you build a two channel music only system and can afford very high quality speakers.

YMMV.

 

[3db]

It comes down to a personal choice and budget......and the build difference between a pair of towers and equivalent price wise bookshelves isn't as great as its made out to be in these threads. The bookshelves maybe a little more rigid but are the differences that great to color the sounds of towers that much? I don't think so.

The one advantage towers have over their bookshelf brethren is power handling ability. Towers will play louder and will not compress nearly as quick as bookshelf speakers. The other is cost. If one has ear marked a certian budget for speakers be it toers or bookshelves) the bookshelf venue will cost you more; speaker stands + sub (or two)

It really does come down to personal preferences and money at the end how these factor into your lifestyle.