blu-ray high resolution audio

[EddieG]

With my HK AVR 147 it apparently does not decode high resolution audio, so I would need a player that decodes internally. Correct? What about bitstreaming? Is that an option for me?

 

[Seth=L]

With my HK AVR 147 it apparently does not decode high resolution audio, so I would need a player that decodes internally. Correct? What about bitstreaming? Is that an option for me?

The H/K AVR-147/146 cannot process audio over HDMI period, of any kind. You would need to either upgrade the receiver to one that can process audio over HDMI or use/get a Blu-ray player that features 5.1-7.1 analog outputs for HD audio duty.

 

[EddieG]

The H/K AVR-147/146 cannot process audio over HDMI period, of any kind. You would need to either upgrade the receiver to one that can process audio over HDMI or use/get a Blu-ray player that features 5.1-7.1 analog outputs for HD audio duty.

I know that...I was going to use the 6 channel audio connection...does this matter?

Obviously I know NOTHING about this.

 

[MUDSHARK]

Your analog method should work by decoding at the player. No bitstream without a receiver/pre-pro capable as well as a blu-ray player capable of bit-stream. I didn't know your receiver had the analog in. Pretty cool of HK to include that on their base models.

 

[Bugbitten]

I know that...I was going to use the 6 channel audio connection...does this matter?

Obviously I know NOTHING about this.

What BD player do you have? Some don't have adjustable bass management.

 

[jostenmeat]

What BD player do you have? Some don't have adjustable bass management.

This brings up a good point. I fear that some players may "cut" LFE by -10db, (or even other #s). Simply turning up the sub is not ideal because you will then be disproportionately increasing summed bass as well.

However, I know little about this stuff, and decided to change my pre/pro to HDMI instead.

You can sign up, and search this "sticky" at avs audio theory subforum. Yes, the technical jargon will scare the hell out of you. Perhaps just ask what you are looking for.

LFE, subwoofers and interconnects explained.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=748147

There is probably a more efficient way to find out. maybe the bluray player subforum instead.

j

 

[EddieG]

I actually don't have a player yet. I'm just doing research to weed out players I don't need to look at.

Thanks!

Eddie

 

[allargon]

The HK AVR 147 is a 5.1 receiver according to their website. This means you don't need the 7.1 analogs that the Panny DMP-BD10AK and the $2k Denon player provide. You just want 5.1 analog out. Pretty much every non-combo Blu-Ray standalone offers this.

Your least expensive option is the Samsung BD-P1400. It will internally decode Dolby TrueHD as well. It will *NOT* internally decode DTS-MA. You will just hear the lossy (but very good) 1.5 Mbps DTS core.

Here is a master list of Blu-Ray players and their capabilities. It's not entirely accurate since the LG BH200 does indeed bitstream.

http://www.idoblu.co.uk/page2 Blu-ray Players.html

If you want a profile 1.1 player, get the Samsung combo BD-UP5000. It will only decode 2 channels of Dolby TrueHD for now. The Panasonic DMP-BD30 is profile 1.1, but will only do LPCM to its analog outs. No current Blu-Ray standalones except the Denon's internally decode DTS-MA.

 

[EddieG]

The HK AVR 147 is a 5.1 receiver according to their website. This means you don't need the 7.1 analogs that the Panny DMP-BD10AK and the $2k Denon player provide. You just want 5.1 analog out. Pretty much every non-combo Blu-Ray standalone offers this.

Your least expensive option is the Samsung BD-P1400. It will internally decode Dolby TrueHD as well. It will *NOT* internally decode DTS-MA. You will just hear the lossy (but very good) 1.5 Mbps DTS core.

Here is a master list of Blu-Ray players and their capabilities. It's not entirely accurate since the LG BH200 does indeed bitstream.

http://www.idoblu.co.uk/page2 Blu-ray Players.html

If you want a profile 1.1 player, get the Samsung combo BD-UP5000. It will only decode 2 channels of Dolby TrueHD for now. The Panasonic DMP-BD30 is profile 1.1, but will only do LPCM to its analog outs. No current Blu-Ray standalones except the Denon's internally decode DTS-MA.

I have no idea what these acronyms mean. I have no idea what the difference is between TrueHD and DTS-MA or the other audio types. And I have no idea what bitstreaming is, but if my receiver cannot decode than I guess I can ignore that in my case?

As for firmware updates, how do you do it with current players...do you get a disc that loads the updates to the player? Do the mfg's send these discs out free as they are available?

 

[allargon]

I have no idea what these acronyms mean. I have no idea what the difference is between TrueHD and DTS-MA or the other audio types. And I have no idea what bitstreaming is, but if my receiver cannot decode than I guess I can ignore that in my case?

As for firmware updates, how do you do it with current players...do you get a disc that loads the updates to the player? Do the mfg's send these discs out free as they are available?

TrueHD and DTS-MA are Dolby and DTS's versions of lossless audio codecs. LPCM is lossless PCM (just like on a CD but at higher sampling/bit rates). Dolby TrueHD is very similar to the MLP found on DVD-A's. This is not like DVD where DTS-MA is better than Dolby TrueHD. DTS-MA=DolbyTrueHD=PCM. Others will argue that one sounds better than the other. That's crap. Ignore it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_TrueHD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTS-HD_Master_Audio

Bitstreaming is allowing your receiver rather than your player to internally decode audio codecs like DTS, Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, DTS-HD, (lossless) Dolby TrueHD and (lossless) DTS-MA. Many say that it's better to have the receiver decode rather than the player. IMHO, that's crap. However, there are various schools of thought on that one. The jury's still out. What does matter that if you bitstream a modern HD DVD or Blu-Ray disc with a lossless PictureinPicture (PiP) track, you can't hear the audio as receivers (AFAIK) can't process mixed streams for whatever reason. (This is why I prefer decoding in the player.)

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/surroundsoundpreampprocessors/1007anthem/index1.html

Firmware updates? It completely depends on the player. All HD DVD players, the PS3 and some Blu-Ray standalones are capable of downloading firmware updates via the Ethernet ports through the Internet. Others require you to burn an ISO image to a CD. (It's way easier than it reads.) The LG BH200 is nice enough to do the above methods as well as read firmware update from a USB key. As a result, you're not wasting a blank CD at $0.20 a pop.

Honestly, all the Blu-Ray players are crap (An opinion shared by many!) right now except the PS3. The LG BH200 would be a good candidate if it would fix ALL of its playback issues (major) and internally decode DTS-MA (minor--only an issue for Fox, New Line and European imports). I would wait a few more months. Sony and Panny are both coming out with profile 2.0 players with 5.1 multichannel analog outs. Oppo may release a player in the near future as well.

 

[Midcow2]

Actually there is a upgrade for the DMP-BD30

..The Panasonic DMP-BD30 is profile 1.1, but will only do LPCM to its analog outs. ..

The Panasonic DMP-BD30 is now 1.6 and PS3 is 2.30

 

[obscbyclouds]

The Panasonic DMP-BD30 is now 1.6 and PS3 is 2.30

That's actually firmware version your post lists, not BR profile. The DMP-BD30 is 1.1 and the PS3 is 2.0.

 

[EddieG]

TrueHD and DTS-MA are Dolby and DTS's versions of lossless audio codecs. LPCM is lossless PCM (just like on a CD but at higher sampling/bit rates). Dolby TrueHD is very similar to the MLP found on DVD-A's. This is not like DVD where DTS-MA is better than Dolby TrueHD. DTS-MA=DolbyTrueHD=PCM. Others will argue that one sounds better than the other. That's crap. Ignore it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_TrueHD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTS-HD_Master_Audio

Bitstreaming is allowing your receiver rather than your player to internally decode audio codecs like DTS, Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, DTS-HD, (lossless) Dolby TrueHD and (lossless) DTS-MA. Many say that it's better to have the receiver decode rather than the player. IMHO, that's crap. However, there are various schools of thought on that one. The jury's still out. What does matter that if you bitstream a modern HD DVD or Blu-Ray disc with a lossless PictureinPicture (PiP) track, you can't hear the audio as receivers (AFAIK) can't process mixed streams for whatever reason. (This is why I prefer decoding in the player.)

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/surroundsoundpreampprocessors/1007anthem/index1.html

Firmware updates? It completely depends on the player. All HD DVD players, the PS3 and some Blu-Ray standalones are capable of downloading firmware updates via the Ethernet ports through the Internet. Others require you to burn an ISO image to a CD. (It's way easier than it reads.) The LG BH200 is nice enough to do the above methods as well as read firmware update from a USB key. As a result, you're not wasting a blank CD at $0.20 a pop.

Honestly, all the Blu-Ray players are crap (An opinion shared by many!) right now except the PS3. The LG BH200 would be a good candidate if it would fix ALL of its playback issues (major) and internally decode DTS-MA (minor--only an issue for Fox, New Line and European imports). I would wait a few more months. Sony and Panny are both coming out with profile 2.0 players with 5.1 multichannel analog outs. Oppo may release a player in the near future as well.

Wow! Thank you so much! I was thinking of the PS3 but with my receiver NOT having audio via HDMI that is out for me. I guess the PS3 has TOSLINK? How does that compare to 6 channel analog audio?

 

[obscbyclouds]

Wow! Thank you so much! I was thinking of the PS3 but with my receiver NOT having audio via HDMI that is out for me. I guess the PS3 has TOSLINK? How does that compare to 6 channel analog audio?

You will not be able to access the lossless soundtracks using a Toslink (S/PDIF) connection. You will get the standard DD or DTS core soundtrack at 1.5 Mbs. It can still sound good, but it's not really comparable to the TrueHD or DTS-HD MA tracks.

6 channel analog audio may be able to carry the lossless soundtracks....but (and this is a big but) the player must decode the audio and send it over analog outputs. I think this means you are waiting for a Panny DMP-BD50, or the Oppo BR player whenever it comes out, or you can get that really expensive Denon player now. I don't know of any others off the top of my head that can decode the lossless tracks and send it over Analog.

 

[allargon]

The Panasonic DMP-BD30 is now 1.6 and PS3 is 2.30

1.1 refers to the highest Blu-Ray profile the Panny supports not the firmware version.

6 channel analog audio may be able to carry the lossless soundtracks....but (and this is a big but) the player must decode the audio and send it over analog outputs. I think this means you are waiting for a Panny DMP-BD50, or the Oppo BR player whenever it comes out, or you can get that really expensive Denon player now. I don't know of any others off the top of my head that can decode the lossless tracks and send it over Analog.

Actually, there are a lot of players that decode Dolby TrueHD and send the audio out over multichannel analog. e.g.:

Samsung BD-P1400 (available at the audioholics store)
Panasonic DMP-BD10
Sharp BD-HP20
Pioneer BDP-HD1 (can't play CD's though)
Sony BDP-S1 (same as the Pioneer)
Sony BDP-S500
Pioneer BDP-94HD
Pioneer BDP-95HD

None of these do DTS-MA which is an issue for Fox titles, some New Line titles, a few obscure indy titles and non-region coded imports from Europe.

If you needs DTS-MA over analog NOW, then you have to pay for that $2k Denon DVD3800BD. If you're patient you can wait a few months for the Panasonic DMP-BD50, Sony BDP-S550 and Pioneer players that will also decode DTS-MA and send out the sound over analog multichannels.

 

[Geno]

Just so you know...

You will not be able to access the lossless soundtracks using a Toslink (S/PDIF) connection. You will get the standard DD or DTS core soundtrack at 1.5 Mbs. It can still sound good, but it's not really comparable to the TrueHD or DTS-HD MA tracks.

6 channel analog audio may be able to carry the lossless soundtracks....but (and this is a big but) the player must decode the audio and send it over analog outputs. I think this means you are waiting for a Panny DMP-BD50, or the Oppo BR player whenever it comes out, or you can get that really expensive Denon player now. I don't know of any others off the top of my head that can decode the lossless tracks and send it over Analog.

My Panny 10 decodes and sends over 7.1 analog to my Denon receiver. Sounds wonderful

 

[obscbyclouds]

My Panny 10 decodes and sends over 7.1 analog to my Denon receiver. Sounds wonderful

Does it do DTS-HD MA also?

 

[Geno]

Does it do DTS-HD MA also?

No, not the MA part. AFAIK, none of the current players do this (except maybe the Denons), but I don't think there's any source material using that format yet.

 

[obscbyclouds]

No, not the MA part. AFAIK, none of the current players do this (except maybe the Denons), but I don't think there's any source material using that format yet.

There's actually quite a bit of source material using DTS-HD MA. Flyboys, Kingdom Of Heaven, Live Free or Die Harder. Actually come to think of it, anything released by Fox or New Line.

I know this because it just recently became available on the PS3.

 

[Geno]

I stand corrected

:

There's actually quite a bit of source material using DTS-HD MA. Flyboys, Kingdom Of Heaven, Live Free or Die Harder. Actually come to think of it, anything released by Fox or New Line.

I know this because it just recently became available on the PS3.

I haven't reallly been paying close attention to very many BD releases lately, since I'm not going to replace any of my SD DVDs. The ones I have bought were on sale at Amazon for about what a SD would cost. I do appreciate the Dolby TrueHD and uncompressed PCM - noticeably more attention-grabbing than the older audio codecs.