Blu-ray Disc vs. HD-DVD... Who Cares?

[racquetman]

A VCD movie is about 600mb, it has crappy resolution.

A DVD movie is about 5gb, it has decent resolution.

An HD movie is much larger. If the file size is only 15gb, then it has good resolution.

An HD movie with a file size of 25gb, then it has super good resolution.


That extra 10gb of storage capacity means you can have much higher resolution movie file on a Blu-ray disc.

Depends on the video codec and the compression efficiency. 15 gb might turn out to be plenty!!

 

[BMXTRIX]

Depends on the video codec and the compression efficiency. 15 gb might turn out to be plenty!!

And SACD & DVD-A are wasted technologies because CD is plenty...

There is most definitely the likelihood for superior quality by having more room and greater bandwidth available. While 15GB is excellent, it is 40% less than 25GB which most definitely leaves room for greater video quality. Sure, HD-DVD could triumph... but why would it? It is far to early to say that pricing will make it succeed over B-D. The only thing that is known is that B-D offers greater bandwidth and greater storage and will be on the PS3 console.

 

[racquetman]

And SACD & DVD-A are wasted technologies because CD is plenty...

There is most definitely the likelihood for superior quality by having more room and greater bandwidth available. While 15GB is excellent, it is 40% less than 25GB which most definitely leaves room for greater video quality. Sure, HD-DVD could triumph... but why would it? It is far to early to say that pricing will make it succeed over B-D. The only thing that is known is that B-D offers greater bandwidth and greater storage and will be on the PS3 console.

The video codec is still at the heart of the issue. If one group goes with H.264 and the other goes with VC-1 or VC-9 and one ends up performing better than the other then all the talk about bandwidth and capacity is meaningless. Besides, HD-DVD has already proven they can get their capacity up to around 45 gb with a triple layer disc. Capacity isn't going to be an issue, BMXTRIX. As far as bandwidth goes, I wasn't aware that the final specifications for either format have been released yet, so what are you basing that statement on?

Why would HD-DVD win? Why wouldn't it? Like I keep saying, the uneducated (on this subject) majority will make that decision, not you or I. Specs mean nothing to the general public. They just want to see a pretty picture for the cheapest price.

 

[BMXTRIX]

All information is based on current specifications for both products which include a wide variety of the most current codecs. If both machines accept the same codecs, which is not a given, then the one with the greater bandwidth and the lower compression rate will have a better image. Will it be noticable? I don't know. I'm not sure how many will know until we have more 1080p displays really.

I do not believe HD-DVD will win - I believe B-D will win. Mostly due to 1M homes having player due to PS3. That of course, is my opinion.

Current specs are available for reading though and will give the numbers as to why B-D is the superior format by the numbers only.

I have also heard rumor that HD players will only read a certain number of layers. Likely dual. So, 45GB on 3 layers may not be accepted by HD-DVD players. They can't change the spec later on without making original players obsolete. Fine for computer drives where you can buy lesser media. But, if a movie is on 3 layers and your HD player only can read 2 layers, then you can't view that entire movie.

I do not believe that triple layer will be available to HD players, though I will be happy to be incorrect on that item.

 

[racquetman]

But don't you think 30 gb is enough to hold an HD movie? If the disc is a double-sided dual layer disc, you put the movie on one side and the extras on the other. You have 30 gb for both sides. Or you do like is done now with many DVDs. Have two discs, one with the movie, the other with extras. Don't you think the HD-DVD camp knew how much capacity they were going to need when they started to develop their specification?

I respectfully disagree with the PS3 thing. I just don't think most people will use a gaming system for their main movie watching. People will buy stand alone players. Does anyone use their xbox or ps2 to watch movies?? No one that I know.

Anyway, I don't necessarily believe HD-DVD will win, but I don't think they'll lose because of the PS3. Just my opinion.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Yes, I think 30GB is enough, I'm not sure if the bandwidth is enough. I'm also not sure how much it will be embraced by the computing industry.

The PS3 thing is a wait and see. I definitely disagree with you. I know no less than 5 people who used a PS3 as their DVD player when they got it. It was the first DVD player they owned and all of them now own stand alone players. DVD had been out for several years before the PS2.

Blu-Ray will have been out for a few months. I know it will be MY first player for HD discs. Eventually I will own whoever wins, but I know that my first discs to own and first rentals will be Blu-Ray. While, in the end, this may not force the outcome to go the way of Blu-Ray disc, I do believe that the PS3 will do for Blu-Ray disc what has never been done before. Am I right? Well now, we won't know until next year, and X-Box may have HD-DVD in their units by then. But, at a loss of all their initial units of sale.

Meh, I'm not a fortune teller, just giving my opinion. I have occassionally made calls that are correct - but am just as often wrong.

 

[racquetman]

Yes, I think 30GB is enough, I'm not sure if the bandwidth is enough. I'm also not sure how much it will be embraced by the computing industry.

The PS3 thing is a wait and see. I definitely disagree with you. I know no less than 5 people who used a PS3 as their DVD player when they got it. It was the first DVD player they owned and all of them now own stand alone players. DVD had been out for several years before the PS2.

Blu-Ray will have been out for a few months. I know it will be MY first player for HD discs. Eventually I will own whoever wins, but I know that my first discs to own and first rentals will be Blu-Ray. While, in the end, this may not force the outcome to go the way of Blu-Ray disc, I do believe that the PS3 will do for Blu-Ray disc what has never been done before. Am I right? Well now, we won't know until next year, and X-Box may have HD-DVD in their units by then. But, at a loss of all their initial units of sale.

Meh, I'm not a fortune teller, just giving my opinion. I have occassionally made calls that are correct - but am just as often wrong.

People will need more than a PS3. They will need an HDTV with HDMI inputs probably? I doubt everyone who buys a PS3 will have a display capable of seeing the high definition output of the blu-ray player. A lot of people have HDTVs, but a lot of them don't have the necessary inputs required - I have an HDTV with DVI / non-HDCP compliant so I'm SOL probably with both formats. I know a couple other guys in the same predicament. We bought our HDTVs a little too soon and now we aren't going to have the inputs we need.

My 2 cents is that all the confusion with inputs and formats and everything else that goes along with new technology is going to keep a winner from emerging for quite a while. However, I've also been wrong before once or twice .

 

[BMXTRIX]

Here's a perfect marketing strategy though: PS3 & Blu-Ray will output 480p over component for video. So, if you OWN the PS3, then buying Blu-Ray movies won't limit your watching abilities, it just won't give people the full experience.

The general public may be confused, but when they see Blu-Ray/PS3 compatible movies, that is what they will more likely buy. A few bucks more? Maybe. But, they know it'll work.

Yeah, I'm just looking forward to all of it. I refuse to buy any more DVDs. I KNOW I will have an HD player, I know it is coming, I will wait.

 

[GettinDegreez]

I read this article comparing the H.264 and the WMV-HD codecs

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=25057

and it's saying that there are no video cards that can do hardware acceleration on these codecs at the moment and it's all done by CPU. To get it to run 1080p at decent frame rates you need a really fast computer. Isn't Blu Ray and HD-DVD using H.264 and VC-1 codecs. Won't Blu Ray and HD-DVD players have to have really good hardware to process and output this high definition content, and that means that their base prices are gonna be pretty high since the hardware itself costs quite a bit.

 

[racquetman]

H.264 is a form of MPEG-4. It has different names, but I most commonly see it as MPEG-4 part 10 AVC (Advanced Video Coding or Codec). This codec is mandatory for both HD-DVD and Blu-ray. You can see it in action on Apple's trailer page if your computer meets the hardware requirements (http://www.apple.com/quicktime/hdgallery/).

I believe VC-1 (Microsoft's advanced video codec) is also mandatory for HD-DVD. I thought I had read a different version of Microsoft's codec, called VC-9, was mandatory for Blu-ray, but I could be wrong or it could have changed. Blu-ray has not announced their final specifications yet.

Expect prices to be very high to begin with. I would be shocked if you could get a player for under $1000 for at least a year (just my guess).

Sony's head man recently said to expect the price of the PS3 to be very high, probably because they are incorporating Blu-ray technology into the system. This is where BMXTRIX and I begin to see differently. He thinks people will buy up PS3s and be the reason that Blu-ray wins the format war. I think PS3s will be too expensive, and most will use them for gaming only. The one thing we both agree on is that we can't wait for them to come to market .

 

[REWJR]

While waiting for the dejablue dust to settle

Here are two great cheap get them now DVD players to tide you over untill whatever tech wins the race ( my guess a good 3 years for it to be clear HD-DVD, Blueray , HVD , HD-VOD etc.. ) .

1. Samsung HD-950 dual HDMI/DVI-D and SACD/DVD-A 720P/1080i upconverting
DVD player with available region free component uprez hack -
http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?eUser=&prod_id=DVD-HD950/XAA&selTab=Specifications

2. JVC PRO HD DVD WMV-HD DIVX HD upconverting player first to play
720P/1080P VC-1 files and DVD's -

http://pro.jvc.com/prof/Attributes/press_res.jsp?tree=&model_id=MDL101546&itempath=&feature_id=08

 

[Spiffyfast]

Here are two great cheap get them now DVD players to tide you over untill whatever tech wins the race ( my guess a good 3 years for it to be clear HD-DVD, Blueray , HVD , HD-VOD etc.. ) .

1. Samsung HD-950 dual HDMI/DVI-D and SACD/DVD-A 720P/1080i upconverting
DVD player with available region free component uprez hack -
http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?eUser=&prod_id=DVD-HD950/XAA&selTab=Specifications

2. JVC PRO HD DVD WMV-HD DIVX HD upconverting player first to play
720P/1080P VC-1 files and DVD's -

http://pro.jvc.com/prof/Attributes/press_res.jsp?tree=&model_id=MDL101546&itempath=&feature_id=08

I like the looks o that JVC one, looks big and beefy.

 

[JuanMontoya]

I have a question. Does anyone know for sure that the PS3 will even play BR movies? I know that it will have a BR drive, but I don't remember reading anywhere that it will also play BR movies. Remember, the Xbox is unable to play DVD movies without buying the remote accessory. Who's to say any of us will be watching BR movies on our PS3's?

 

[BMXTRIX]

I have a question. Does anyone know for sure that the PS3 will even play BR movies? I know that it will have a BR drive, but I don't remember reading anywhere that it will also play BR movies. Remember, the Xbox is unable to play DVD movies without buying the remote accessory. Who's to say any of us will be watching BR movies on our PS3's?

I would agree with that if Blu-Ray was an established format... Microsoft COULD have given away DVD capabilities, but didn't want their machine used to play DVDs and didn't care less about it at all.

Sony not only wants people to buy Blu-Ray, but they want as many people and as many homes as possible to have players and the ability to play those discs. It represents millions of dollars of profits and the future of the HD disc media.

I definitely think it would be an enormous financial and business blunder on the part of Sony not to allow playback of Blu-Ray movies. It would actually make a lot MORE sense to include a free movie in the box to get people buying.

 

[racquetman]

Audio speculation??

Anyone wanna venture a guess as to what type of audio codec we'll see on these blue laser format discs?

I was reading a DTS press release from a while ago, and it says that DTS's core 5.1 channel surround sound was mandatory for both new formats. DTS-HD was only optional for both formats. I'm assuming it's the same deal for Dolby Digital Plus (optional w/regular Dolby Digital being madatory).

I wonder how many of these discs are going to show up with these new codecs. Do you think it's going to be like DD EX and DTS-ES are now - used very sparingly? Or are all these discs going to use the new technology to try and convince people to buy their movie collection over again?

I've been putting off buying a new receiver or pre/pro because I want one that can decode these new formats, but I wonder if it's worth the wait.

Anyone have any educated guesses or, better yet, some inside info. Maybe Clint or Gene can coax DD or DTS into giving them some info .