Bi-amping RF-7 II's

[DenPureSound]

RippyMan -- get an External AMP and take the load off the AVR -- Been there, done that, and it is worth every Penny you spend on a Great AMP.

Whether it is Denon or Marantz (Same Co.) YOU WILL HEAR A BIG DIFFERENCE when you get your EMO Amp -- Period!

They all told me the same thing that an external amp is not worth it -- they were wrong -- it is WORTH IT.

 

[DenPureSound]

So bi-amping is a waste, but would I benefit from a separate amp then?

A two-channel?

Right now all that is powering them is my SR7005 which still seems to sound ridiculous but some of my audio friends are telling me that an external amp will make them really come alive?

I would get the EMO XPA-5, and take the load off the Marantz which is an excellent receiver, but you will NOTICE a big difference, we did right away and our Klipsch's were not as efficient as yours at 98dB Sensitivity -- but you will get all the extra headroom, and feel the Dynamics and Fast Transients A LOT MORE.

Your IN FOR A TREAT w/ those Fine RF-7II's and an EMO XPA-5, or XPA-2/3.

Money worth while spent -- on an External Amp.

 

[Rippyman]

Well you are the first person to say that, haha, other then my friends of course.

I was just reading this blog on the Klipsch site, I don't know what to believe anymore.

I had my Klipsch hooked up to my buddies Parasound amps before I got my receiver, it was definitely loud ie. less dial to get the same volume, but I'm not certain it sounded any better then it does now.

Of course I didn't run any kind of setup on the speakers, everything was neutral, factory settings.

When I got my receiver I ran the audessey setup and did some fine tuning.

Here is the blog from the Kipsch site, I've cut a portion out for reading here.

So where’s the controversy? Just taking two stereo amplifiers and hooking them up to your speakers (removing the straps on the input terminals) is called passive bi-amping (or “fool’s bi-amping” for the non-PC) and is very close to being just a waste of money (again many people will disagree). You are sending the entire music signal to both amplifiers and both amplifiers are amplifying the entire signal, but you are allowing the passive crossover network to filter the amplified signals. I can’t think of any benefit in doing this. The tweeter amplifier is still reproducing the bass signals and they are still causing the amplifier to clip. (Perhaps there is a slight benefit by not requiring the current of the bass notes, as this can increase the headroom of the tweeter amplifier – by not drawing down the power supply rail voltage.)

http://community.klipsch.com/blogs/andyw/archive/2007/09/07/bi-amplifying-or-bi-amping.aspx

 

[zumbo]

Not going to hear a difference with an external amp. Will sound exactly the same. Not only have I been there, I am there.

The only external amp that will make a difference you can hear would be a tube amp. Whether or not that is a good thing is up to the end user.

 

[adwilk]

RippyMan -- get an External AMP and take the load off the AVR -- Been there, done that, and it is worth every Penny you spend on a Great AMP.

Whether it is Denon or Marantz (Same Co.) YOU WILL HEAR A BIG DIFFERENCE when you get your EMO Amp -- Period!

They all told me the same thing that an external amp is not worth it -- they were wrong -- it is WORTH IT.

DANG IT!!!!! You do realize that I can no longer take your opinions of your new DT's seriously now, right???? Ugh.

I have to disagree with you. Those RF7's present almost no load to the AVR and adding an external amp will achieve no audible difference at normal listening levels.

That said, I have no problem with adding an amp, its kinda cool. It just doesnt actually improve anything...

BTW DPS, They aren't the ones you have, but after auditioning some stuff, a buddy of mine and I settled on the BP8040's for his room...

 

[DenPureSound]

DANG IT!!!!! You do realize that I can no longer take your opinions of your new DT's seriously now, right???? Ugh.

I have to disagree with you. Those RF7's present almost no load to the AVR and adding an external amp will achieve no audible difference at normal listening levels.

That said, I have no problem with adding an amp, its kinda cool. It just doesnt actually improve anything...

BTW DPS, They aren't the ones you have, but after auditioning some stuff, a buddy of mine and I settled on the BP8040's for his room...

You do NOT have to take my opinions about anything, especially our newly acquired EXCELLENT BiPolar DT 7XXX's -- Rippyman knows that adding an External Amp will overall be a better setup, facilitate greater headroom, transients/dynamics -- it DOES MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE and is totally noticeable at higher room SPL Levels, of course if you listen only at 65-70dB then just stay w/ the AVR by it's lonely self, and save the money and call it done.

Call EMOTIVA and talk to them, they know and that is why they sale amplifiers, like many other companies do -- or better yet call Mark Levinson or Bryston or Parasound and you will get the same answers.

BTW we heard the 8040's/8060's/8080's/7XXX's, and NONE of them even come in a close Second to the Def. Tech. 7XXX Series, not even the Golden Ears Triton Two's at $2500... the closer second is the MYTHOS ST SuperTower Floor-standing ultra-performance loudspeaker with built-in powered subwoofers, and they are $1999 Each or around $4K per Pair. I am sure your friend will like his 8040's for that price point at $799 MSRP each.

 

[DenPureSound]

Not going to hear a difference with an external amp. Will sound exactly the same. Not only have I been there, I am there.

The only external amp that will make a difference you can hear would be a tube amp. Whether or not that is a good thing is up to the end user.

Not true at all at higher Vp-p levels, where the source current amplitude requirements are much higher -- that is why so many Mfg's. are still in the business selling Amplifiers, and one heck of a lot of them!

Well, we will see if the RIPPYMAN w/ his Very Effy. 101dB RF-7II's goes for it or not, it is his call in the end.

 

[TLS Guy]

You do NOT have to take my opinions about anything, especially our newly acquired EXCELLENT BiPolar DT 7XXX's -- Rippyman knows that adding an External Amp will overall be a better setup, facilitate greater headroom, transients/dynamics -- it DOES MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE and is totally noticeable at higher room SPL Levels, of course if you listen only at 65-70dB then just stay w/ the AVR by it's lonely self, and save the money and call it done.

Call EMOTIVA and talk to them, they know and that is why they sale amplifiers, like many other companies do -- or better yet call Mark Levinson or Bryston or Parasound and you will get the same answers.

BTW we heard the 8040's/8060's/8080's/7XXX's, and NONE of them even come in a close Second to the Def. Tech. 7XXX Series, not even the Golden Ears Triton Two's at $2500... the closer second is the MYTHOS ST SuperTower Floor-standing ultra-performance loudspeaker with built-in powered subwoofers, and they are $1999 Each or around $4K per Pair. I am sure your friend will like his 8040's for that price point at $799 MSRP each.

There are many speakers that benefit from externals amps possible most. However those Klipsch at 101 db sensitivity are not one of them. His receiver is already equivalent to 1000 watts per channel driving almost all other speakers on the market.

So he will be able to achieve a higher spl. than my speakers being driven from a bank of amps providing 750 watts per channel driving my mains.

For Heaven's sake consider the physics of the situation before you shoot from the hip.

A 10 watt per channel amp would suffice just fine with those speakers.

 

[DenPureSound]

There are many speakers that benefit from externals amps possible most. However those Klipsch at 101 db sensitivity are not one of them. His receiver is already equivalent to 1000 watts per channel driving almost all other speakers on the market.

So he will be able to achieve a higher spl. than my speakers being driven from a bank of amps providing 750 watts per channel driving my mains.

For Heaven's sake consider the physics of the situation before you shoot from the hip.

A 10 watt per channel amp would suffice just fine with those speakers.

Depends on what he is trying to accomplish, and what he feels his problems are with his existing setup? He was initially talking about Bi-amping the front RF-7II's. I WOULD NOT BI-AMP THEM ... NO WAY. Now, the external amp is another decision he will need to make, based upon what he is trying to get out of his system.

 

[adwilk]

that is why so many Mfg's. are still in the business selling Amplifiers, and one heck of a lot of them!

Noooo... You, SIR, are why so many are still in business. I'm just giving you a hard time, but its a horrible argument... Why is MONSTER still in business??? Or BOSE?

I've heard the speakers in question hooked up to a small 15wpc t-amp and a 250wpc NAD external. Even at RIDICULOUS levels in a large room, no difference. That was the consensus amongst a handful of enthusiasts.

Placebo is strong, especially when the question of "wasted" money is the topic. Of course EMO is gonna tell me I need one. Don't be so naive.

I have to go break-in some power cords.

 

[adwilk]

based upon what he is trying to get out of his system.

Or how much he wants to put into a non-existent return...

BTW DPS, I'd be in full agreement with you for A LOT of speakers... Just not the ones in question.

 

[DenPureSound]

Noooo... You, SIR, are why so many are still in business. I'm just giving you a hard time, but its a horrible argument... Why is MONSTER still in business??? Or BOSE?

I've heard the speakers in question hooked up to a small 15wpc t-amp and a 250wpc NAD external. Even at RIDICULOUS levels in a large room, no difference. That was the consensus amongst a handful of enthusiasts.

Placebo is strong, especially when the question of "wasted" money is the topic. Of course EMO is gonna tell me I need one. Don't be so naive.

I have to go break-in some power cords.

Make sure those speakers are broken in also, like Aperion and KEF recommend 40-50 hrs...

Don't spend more than a Pico-Second breaking in your AC Power cords, and make sure your at STP.

 

[DenPureSound]

Or how much he wants to put into a non-existent return...

BTW DPS, I'd be in full agreement with you for A LOT of speakers... Just not the ones in question.

So I suppose driving a Denon 3311 AVR w/ a pair of Klipsch RF-82II's at 98dB Sensitivity do not need an external amp either?

We will see if we are in agreement.

 

[zumbo]

Call EMOTIVA and talk to them, they know and that is why they sale amplifiers, like many other companies do -- or better yet call Mark Levinson or Bryston or Parasound and you will get the same answers.

Really....really? You're just pulling my leg. Right?

Do you think I should call Domino's, and ask them should I order a pizza?

 

[DenPureSound]

Really....really? You're just pulling my leg. Right?

Do you think I should call Domino's, and ask them should I order a pizza?

Domino's, are you kidding yourself? Heck, they might ask you if your hungry, and can pay the bill -- but be sure to tell them you are on Food Stamps and see what they say then. [Laughing]

Do you really think everyone that makes something is dishonest, and all of them just want to sale you something? Some, but NOT ALL of them. There are still some very Professional and Ethical companies out there, hard to believe for some.

Parasound did not want to sell me an amp, can you believe that, there is some proof in that pudding! They even told me, go w/ EMO better bang for the buck!! See some are Very Honest!

I didn't miss your point either, some like external AMPS and some do not.

 

[zumbo]

Parasound did not want to sell me an amp, can you believe that, there is some proof in that pudding! They even told me, go w/ EMO better bang for the buck!! See some are Very Honest!

WOW! Just WOW!

If I called Domino's and mentioned that Papa Johns claims better ingredients, and told them I was thinking about buying Papa Johns, but I just wanted to talk about it. Don't you think they would just say for me to buy the Papa Johns, and have a nice day!

 

[zumbo]

Pretty sure if you actually call Parasound, you are not going to get a salesman on the other end.

I would think that if you called EMO, you are getting a salesman.

 

[agarwalro]

RippyMan -- get an External AMP and take the load off the AVR -- Been there, done that, and it is worth every Penny you spend on a Great AMP.

Whether it is Denon or Marantz (Same Co.) YOU WILL HEAR A BIG DIFFERENCE when you get your EMO Amp -- Period!

They all told me the same thing that an external amp is not worth it -- they were wrong -- it is WORTH IT.

I would get the EMO XPA-5, and take the load off the Marantz which is an excellent receiver, but you will NOTICE a big difference, we did right away and our Klipsch's were not as efficient as yours at 98dB Sensitivity -- but you will get all the extra headroom, and feel the Dynamics and Fast Transients A LOT MORE.

Your IN FOR A TREAT w/ those Fine RF-7II's and an EMO XPA-5, or XPA-2/3.

Money worth while spent -- on an External Amp.

Not true at all at higher Vp-p levels, where the source current amplitude requirements are much higher -- that is why so many Mfg's. are still in the business selling Amplifiers, and one heck of a lot of them!

Well, we will see if the RIPPYMAN w/ his Very Effy. 101dB RF-7II's goes for it or not, it is his call in the end.

Sadly, misinformation like this spoken under the guise of informed discussion keep the ignorant and/or lazy off the right track.

 

[agarwalro]

So where’s the controversy? Just taking two stereo amplifiers and hooking them up to your speakers (removing the straps on the input terminals) is called passive bi-amping (or “fool’s bi-amping” for the non-PC) and is very close to being just a waste of money (again many people will disagree). You are sending the entire music signal to both amplifiers and both amplifiers are amplifying the entire signal, but you are allowing the passive crossover network to filter the amplified signals. I can’t think of any benefit in doing this. The tweeter amplifier is still reproducing the bass signals and they are still causing the amplifier to clip. (Perhaps there is a slight benefit by not requiring the current of the bass notes, as this can increase the headroom of the tweeter amplifier – by not drawing down the power supply rail voltage.)

The controversy is that subjectivist believers say it matters and scientific fact quoting, rational people are shot down by said subjectivist community for not having the "audiophile ear".

 

[zieglj01]

Right now all that is powering them is my SR7005 which still seems to sound ridiculous but some of my audio friends are telling me that an external amp will make them really come alive?

That receiver is more than capable of handling the job. I listenened to
some Klipsch Reference speakers, with some MacIntosh Amps a few
days ago - no real difference in sound quality, compared to a Pioneer
Elite receiver.