Bi-Amping question- to use or not to use active X/O

[JWBakerIV]

I currently have B&W 683 speakers vertically bi-amped with two Rotel RB-1080 amps using balanced interconnect from a wadia 850 CD player. Currently I'm having to use custom series 3 straightwire XLR Y adapters to feed the line inputs. I have been contemplating adding some sort of 2 way active crossover between my cd player and the amplifiers to both eliminate the Y's. Are there audible benefits from adding such a beast to the mix? or will it just be another device to degrade/ negatively alter signal quality? If adding one could provide benefits what are some suggestions on manufacturer and or models to pick from?

 

[TLS Guy]

I currently have B&W 683 speakers vertically bi-amped with two Rotel RB-1080 amps using balanced interconnect from a wadia 850 CD player. Currently I'm having to use custom series 3 straightwire XLR Y adapters to feed the line inputs. I have been contemplating adding some sort of 2 way active crossover between my cd player and the amplifiers to both eliminate the Y's. Are there audible benefits from adding such a beast to the mix? or will it just be another device to degrade/ negatively alter signal quality? If adding one could provide benefits what are some suggestions on manufacturer and or models to pick from?

You would have to custom design a crossover for those speakers and build it. You would have to remove the passive crossover. You would have to triamp since it is a three way. You would need a first order high pass filter, second order high and low band pass filters, and a third order low pass filter. Crossover points would need to be 350 Hz and 4 KHz. You would have to look at the passive crossover and duplicate any notch filters or items of that nature. Your would also have to level match the outputs of the active filter to the drivers. If you could pull it off, you would have a better speaker, as a lot of speaker problems are caused by the passive crossover.

This goes to hart of the question that it is time to relegate the receiver to the ash bin of history and put the active crossovers and amps in the speakers where that really belong.

 

[JWBakerIV]

You would have to custom design a crossover for those speakers and build it. You would have to remove the passive crossover. You would have to triamp since it is a three way. You would need a first order high pass filter, second order high and low band pass filters, and a third order low pass filter. Crossover points would need to be 350 Hz and 4 KHz. You would have to look at the passive crossover and duplicate any notch filters or items of that nature. Your would also have to level match the outputs of the active filter to the drivers. If you could pull it off, you would have a better speaker, as a lot of speaker problems are caused by the passive crossover.

This goes to hart of the question that it is time to relegate the receiver to the ash bin of history and put the active crossovers and amps in the speakers where that really belong.

Thats a lot more work that I think I'm willing to go through for a pair of $1,600 speakers (which I bought on accomodation for $700). I was hoping to find a way to improve their sound a step further, however I eventually intend to upgrade to the 802D's. What do you think of the higher quality passive X/O's made with mylar caps and such? And in reguards to a custom active X/O are there not models out there that can be tuned enough to the point where they can match almost any speaker?

 

[TLS Guy]

Thats a lot more work that I think I'm willing to go through for a pair of $1,600 speakers (which I bought on accomodation for $700). I was hoping to find a way to improve their sound a step further, however I eventually intend to upgrade to the 802D's. What do you think of the higher quality passive X/O's made with mylar caps and such? And in reguards to a custom active X/O are there not models out there that can be tuned enough to the point where they can match almost any speaker?

There is no off the shelf unit that will improve the 802D. I prefer the 800D by the way.

If you want to step into the future and get one of the world's best speakers with active crossover and amp, then look at ATC.

The speakers my seem pricey, but there are a lot of speakers there that will be cheaper than the 802D custom crossovers and six amps. The end result will be better.

http://www.flatearthaudio.com/atc_info.html

 

[JWBakerIV]

ATC is definitly something I have never heard of before but they seem to have some impressive speakers. Have you personally auditioned them? I'm pretty hell and gone from any dealer.

I have heard many-a-speaker (including maggies, M&K, Krell, McIntosh) but I have always been impressed with B&W's full line of speakers. Being a dealer of them I have auditioned everything from the 600's to the Enclosure free Nautilus Refrence speaker. I love the 800D's but they are a little out of my price range and much bulkier than the 802's which will give me the same tweet/midrange configuration. If I do go 800 seris I will more than likely upgrade to classe or McIntosh amps.

 

[TLS Guy]

ATC is definitly something I have never heard of before but they seem to have some impressive speakers. Have you personally auditioned them? I'm pretty hell and gone from any dealer.

I have heard many-a-speaker (including maggies, M&K, Krell, McIntosh) but I have always been impressed with B&W's full line of speakers. Being a dealer of them I have auditioned everything from the 600's to the Enclosure free Nautilus Refrence speaker. I love the 800D's but they are a little out of my price range and much bulkier than the 802's which will give me the same tweet/midrange configuration. If I do go 800 seris I will more than likely upgrade to classe or McIntosh amps.

Yes, I have heard them, they are very, very good speakers, and beloved of many recording engineers.

Flat Earth Audio, I know the owners, they are very friendly, They just handle SME and ATC. Both are great lines. SME pickups are simply the best. I have used them for almost 40 years.

 

[fmw]

TLS speaks the truth. I should say that it is possible to buy adjustable active crossovers. You wouldn't really need to custom build one. Active biamplification is the only type of biamplification that actually affects the sound of a system. It requires replacing the passive crossover with the active one, not just adding an active one just as TLS says.

Even the issue of adding amplifier power to a passively biamplified system is pretty specious simply because the tweeters only use milliwatts of power so putting another 100 watts to power them is really pretty silly.

My advice is to use some sort of equalization if you want to alter the sound of your system. That will actually work while passive biamplification will not.