Bi-amping my DenonX4400H

[Gary Taylor]

I have a pair of Definitive STL Technology speakers. Going to set the Denon to 7.1 bi amp and hook to sets of 14 gauge cable with banana plugs hoping for great results...

 

[Pogre]

You likely won't get any improvements at all. "Buy-wiring" is more like it. It's more of a sales gimmick than anything.

*Edit: Here's an article for you to check out that can explain better than I.

https://www.audioholics.com/frequent-questions/the-difference-between-biamping-vs-biwiring

 

[j_garcia]

You can do it with 16, but the "difference" will just be more wire.

 

[Gary Taylor]

Will give it a try. Bought the wire with banana plug ends. Will give it a try. Real light wire, not sure if it’s 16 or 18.

 

[lovinthehd]

IMO the bi-wire thing is a waste of wire and time. Try this table for determining for your speakers/length of cable run needed http://roger-russell.com/wire.htm#wiretable

 

[KenM10759]

In my own personal experience, the difference is HUGE. I had bi-wired my KEF R500's using the unused "back" channels of my 7.1 channel AVR that's on a 5.1 system.

The difference was profound. No, not the sound quality, not the loudness, and not the load on my receiver. The difference was in my brain. I learned quickly that I had spent too much time and a little bit of money making a bigger mess of wires.

 

[TechHDS]

About the only thing I would do would be Monoblock amps each speaker would have it's own power supply. I had monoblocks back in the day on a pair of LSi-15's. Only at really loud volume like umm, say -5 to 0 dbs did it make a difference other than that at -20 to -15 about reference level volumes couldn't tell between my AVR and the amps. But when you just gotta have concert level sound in your living room yeah monoblocks.

 

[Verdinut]

Your Denon AVR doesn't provide real active bi-amping. Active bi-amping requires an electronic crossover to split the frequency range between two separate amplifiers.

The Denon doesn't have an inboard electronic crossover for such purpose. Their bi-amping feature only allows you the possibility to use the back surround amps to drive some drivers and the front left and right amps would amplify the other drivers.

However, you have to know how your speakers are configured. If your speakers have double binding posts, you have to remove the jumper between them if you want to proceed that way.

 

[Verdinut]

About the only thing I would do would be Monoblock amps each speaker would have it's own power supply. I had monoblocks back in the day on a pair of LSi-15's. Only at really loud volume like umm, say -5 to 0 dbs did it make a difference other than that at -20 to -15 about reference level volumes couldn't tell between my AVR and the amps. But when you just gotta have concert level sound in your living room yeah monoblocks.

If you want to have, as you say, concert level sound, monoblocks are not absolutely necessary. A good 2 channel amp can do the job just as well.

I'm using three QSC 2 channel Digital Cinema amplifiers for actively bi-amping my 3 front channel speakers. Each DCA1222 has a power rating of 325w/ch @4 ohms with both channels driven.. These amps are used in all Cineplex theaters in North America.

 

[TechHDS]

If you want to have, as you say, concert level sound, monoblocks are not absolutely necessary. A good 2 channel amp can do the job just as well.

I'm using three QSC 2 channel Digital Cinema amplifiers for actively bi-amping my 3 front channel speakers. Each DCA1222 has a power rating of 325w/ch @4 ohms with both channels driven.. These amps are used in all Cineplex theaters in North America.

Never said, 'absolutely necessary' I personally would never use that acronym. I mention monoblocks only because OP, was considering Bi-amping. But yeah a nice two channel or multi channel amp with a nice big power supply would do nicely to. A true audiophile who is really, really serious about 2-channel critical listening would have a pair of monoblocks just for the L/R mains.

 

[j_garcia]

I used to have monos because I had 5 identical 4 ohm speakers. Now that I don't, I have a 5ch amp. No issue delivering sound levels that are uncomfortable even in my over 5k+ cf room. Unless you are going to do at least proper passive biamping with enough real channels on separate amps to do it, monos are going to be better for "college party" concert levels.

 

[Verdinut]

I used to have monos because I had 5 identical 4 ohm speakers. Now that I don't, I have a 5ch amp. No issue delivering sound levels that are uncomfortable even in my over 5k+ cf room. Unless you are going to do at least proper passive biamping with enough real channels on separate amps to do it, monos are going to be better for "college party" concert levels.

Would you explain why you believe that monoblocks would do better than a good 2 channel amp for "college party" concert levels?

For example, pro audio amps are used in PA concerts, cinemas and amphitheaters and some of them are 2 channel amps which can output a lot more clean power than those more expensive audiophile monoblocks.

 

[lovinthehd]

I seem to remember reading a quote from Nelson Pass (well known amp designer) on the subject of monoblocks being unnecessary as long as a certain crosstalk threshold is exceeded. Think it was in the neighborhood of 30dB but it's been a while and can't locate the quote in a brief search....

 

[Verdinut]

The crosstalk spec is one which I would normally consider a very secondary one as compared to distortion levels, frequency response, bandwidth and SNR. The reason is that sound between instruments playing and singers in the same room are already mixed together in the same acoustic space.

IMO, the spec becomes more critical if a multichannel amp is to reproduce sound from channel sources which are not interrelated in the same room.

 

[TechHDS]

It's Threads and post like this, is why I hangout in here. These are the Threads and post when You Ole Timers jump in, is when I get my ' learning' on. As you guys know monoblock amps are known for their very very low noise floor not to mention the very low cross talk which 'loveinthehd' mentioned in this Thread. @Verdinut, I agree with your post that other factors are a lil more important when choosing a amp, avr, most if not all even the bottom feeder AVR's have a crosstalk spec that you couldn't probably hear. Just when I think I can't pick up a tip or gain anymore knowledge in here a Thread like this pops up and one of you Ole Timers will jump in post something that'll jog something for my old memory of days gone by. @loveinthehd, 'crosstalk' first time I heard that I was in my late teens talking with my father-in-law who is the one who got me interested in this Hobby. He is pushing 90, his coherence and memory isn't what it used to be. I surely will miss that guy when he passes away..

 

[j_garcia]

Would you explain why you believe that monoblocks would do better than a good 2 channel amp for "college party" concert levels?

For example, pro audio amps are used in PA concerts, cinemas and amphitheaters and some of them are 2 channel amps which can output a lot more clean power than those more expensive audiophile monoblocks.

Nobody said Pro amps couldn't do it too, but not everyone buys pro amps. There's a difference between "home concert" and CONCERT levels. I get the feeling we're not talking about live venue levels here. Pro amps are designed with more abuse in mind as well. My previous two Marantz integrateds, both had separate everything for each channel, except the power supply. I'll guess the Pro amps are more along those lines as well.

Another aspect of monos is that each power supply reacts only to the load of the one speaker; not sharing with the other(s). If the demand on the amp isn't to the point where that's a factor, as in the amp has sufficient headroom to handle the load, that isn't as much of an advantage. Effectively even with a two or more channel amp, the same would apply - if it is powerful enough for the load for the desired SPL then you don't have an issue.

 

[TechHDS]

Would you explain why you believe that monoblocks would do better than a good 2 channel amp for "college party" concert levels?

For example, pro audio amps are used in PA concerts, cinemas and amphitheaters and some of them are 2 channel amps which can output a lot more clean power than those more expensive audiophile monoblocks.

Nobody said Pro amps couldn't do it too, but not everyone buys pro amps. There's a difference between "home concert" and CONCERT levels. I get the feeling we're not talking about live venue levels here. Pro amps are designed with more abuse in mind as well. My previous two Marantz integrateds, both had separate everything for each channel, except the power supply. I'll guess the Pro amps are more along those lines as well.

Another aspect of monos is that each power supply reacts only to the load of the one speaker; not sharing with the other(s). If the demand on the amp isn't to the point where that's a factor, as in the amp has sufficient headroom to handle the load, that isn't as much of an advantage. Effectively even with a two or more channel amp, the same would apply - if it is powerful enough for the load for the desired SPL then you don't have an issue.

Smooth post 'Verdinut' I wanted to post something alone the line of your post. But Me being a umm..not ole timer in here like most of you guys. I just sit back and enjoy the post and Threads on Audioholics website. You guys rule on the web!. I say this with respect and admiration cause even though I am very knowledgeable with this hobby I don't have the technical schooling and experience that most of you guys have. So carry on..