bi amping cinenova grande?

[Dr bud]

I have a cinenova grande 5.I have seen here and there people bi amping using 2 of the channels for each front speaker.The amp has a high /low pass adjustable setting for each channel for biamping.Any owners tried this,and how exactly?I assume i would just remove the jumper plates on my speakers between the low and mid and use a y cable running 1 end to the processor with the double end goin to each amp channel?

 

[Pyrrho]

Normally, there are two reasons to bi-amp. One is to effectively increase the power that one has. This can also be done by just getting a more powerful amplifier without bi-amping. If your system plays as loud as you want without distortion, then you don't need more power.

The second reason is to bypass the passive crossover in the speaker (or when there is no passive crossover and bi-amping is necessary). This is done with an electronic crossover, where one feeds the preamp signal to an electronic crossover, the high frequency output of which is fed to one amplifier and the low frequency output is fed to another amplifier. The crossover frequency that is selected needs to match the capabilities of the different speakers (i.e., it must not be too low for the tweeter [or midrange] speaker, and not too high for the woofer, and the crossover slope must be appropriate for what is being done as well). This can result in better sound (particularly if the passive crossover is poorly designed), but one needs to worry about whether or not an amplifier inverts the phase, and one needs to carefully match the levels of each for proper sound, so if one does not know what one is doing, there is a decent chance that the sound will actually be degraded by doing this.


Now, as for whether what you are proposing would work, you should consult the manual for your speakers about how they are wired and whether or not they are set up for bi-amping or only bi-wiring. (If they are set up only for bi-wiring, forget about it, unless you are planning on rewiring the internal crossover of your speakers, which, unless you really know what you are doing, you ought not even consider doing.) You also would want to bypass the crossover in your speakers if you are using an electronic crossover, or you will be applying two crossovers which will interact, most likely in a manner that degrades the sound. If you don't have the manuals or a reliable source of information regarding the crossover frequency and slope that would be appropriate, I recommend that you forget about it and just enjoy it wired normally.

 

[Dr bud]

Thanks.The reason i was wondering was at extreme volumes i do see the clip lights start to blink at times and figured this would give me more current and headroom.I will have to look at the speaker manuals(Def Tech bp200tl's).

 

[Pyrrho]

Thanks.The reason i was wondering was at extreme volumes i do see the clip lights start to blink at times and figured this would give me more current and headroom.I will have to look at the speaker manuals(Def Tech bp200tl's).

If you mean Definitive Technology BP2000TL, those already have built-in amplifiers for the woofers. In which case, you should consult the manual for them. You may be able to feed them a direct line level signal for the bass, and send just the upper frequencies to your amplifier to drive the rest of the speakers, which will make life easier on your amplifier, as it will then not be amplifying the deep bass, which typically requires the most power. But you will need to read the manual for your speakers to get the full details, as I am not sufficiently familiar with them to be able to tell you how best to set them up.

 

[Dr bud]

bp2000tl's(correct)

I posted back in april i believe, about the fact i was suprised the clipping lights came on this amp at times when i just wanted to listen at very high volumes.I had a rotel rmb 1090 before running my fronts and never ran out of power.So when i purchased the cinenova,rated at 328watts rms at 8 ohms compared to the rmb 1090's 380wpc rms rating i figured there would really be no difference in power output,but there is.I assume maybe the rotel has more current capability and more storage per channel perhaps?Maybe i will just get a monster 2 channel amp for my fronts again and use a different 3 channel for the center and surrounds.I wanted the cinenova so i could just have 1 amp takin up space instead of 2.Oh well.Back to audiogonThanks for the replies again.

 

[Pyrrho]

I posted back in april i believe, about the fact i was suprised the clipping lights came on this amp at times when i just wanted to listen at very high volumes.I had a rotel rmb 1090 before running my fronts and never ran out of power.So when i purchased the cinenova,rated at 328watts rms at 8 ohms compared to the rmb 1090's 380wpc rms rating i figured there would really be no difference in power output,but there is.I assume maybe the rotel has more current capability and more storage per channel perhaps?Maybe i will just get a monster 2 channel amp for my fronts again and use a different 3 channel for the center and surrounds.I wanted the cinenova so i could just have 1 amp takin up space instead of 2.Oh well.Back to audiogonThanks for the replies again.

There is a difference between rated power and actual (or measured) power. I believe the Rotel RB-1090 (if that is the one you mean; it is rated at 380 W RMS @ 8 ohms) is capable of more power than its rating. This, by the way, is an example of why it is usually best to keep one's old equipment until after one buys the new stuff, and is sure that one is satisfied with the new, before getting rid of the old. I have on many occasions read comments from people expressing regret at getting rid of something they had and replacing it with some new shiny toy.

But before you buy something else, check your manuals to see if you can't solve your particular problem by sending the bass to your speakers via preamp outputs and only amplifying the upper frequencies with your separate power amp. Since your speakers basically throw away the power sent to the bass, there is no downside to this, if you can do it properly (again, check your manuals).

 

[Dr bud]

I believe the rb 1090 starts clipping at 407watts at 8 ohms,and the cinenova at around 329 watts both at .1%.So it really shouldn't be much of a difference?I just find it hard to believe that the def techs having a built in amp to power the subs and a moderate efficiency rating of 91dbs would make any amplifier with say 200wpc work hard!I mean i am putting in 325 solid watts at 8ohms(doubling into4 ohms) to four 6.5 inch mids and 2 tweets per side.You would think it would blow them up!Chet from Def tech says that these speakers will take 1000watts!My processor is a rotel rsp 1066 which at the moment i am looking to upgrade.It does not have outputs for a pre amp oddly.In the manual for my bp2000tl's it shows a hook up for using the speakers full range low level in using a y connector comming from the amp and pre amp and removing the jumpers between the mid and low binding posts.So would i just get y connectors and plug the single end in to the front left and right speaker pre amp outs of the rotel?Egad so confusing.I thought i knew alot about this hobby.LOL.Sorry for not forming paragraphs,i am not very good with computers and don't know how.Thanks again!My vacation starts now til monday.Have a good weekend.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If you mean Definitive Technology BP2000TL, those already have built-in amplifiers for the woofers. In which case, you should consult the manual for them. You may be able to feed them a direct line level signal for the bass, and send just the upper frequencies to your amplifier to drive the rest of the speakers, which will make life easier on your amplifier, as it will then not be amplifying the deep bass, which typically requires the most power.

No, it doesn't work that way.

Whether you single-amp or bi-amp these BP speakers, you will only be amping the tweeters and mid/woofers. You will not even be able to externally power the subwoofer portion.

When you try to "bi-amp" these speakers, your 1st external amp will drive the tweeters & mid/woofers, and the ONLY thing your 2nd external amp will do is SEND the signal to the speaker's INTERNAL amp, which will drive the built-in subwoofer.

Waste of time. Don't even do it.

 

[Dr bud]

Nice pics!

 

[Pyrrho]

If you mean Definitive Technology BP2000TL, those already have built-in amplifiers for the woofers. In which case, you should consult the manual for them. You may be able to feed them a direct line level signal for the bass, and send just the upper frequencies to your amplifier to drive the rest of the speakers, which will make life easier on your amplifier, as it will then not be amplifying the deep bass, which typically requires the most power. But you will need to read the manual for your speakers to get the full details, as I am not sufficiently familiar with them to be able to tell you how best to set them up.

No, it doesn't work that way.

Whether you single-amp or bi-amp these BP speakers, you will only be amping the tweeters and mid/woofers. You will not even be able to externally power the subwoofer portion.

When you try to "bi-amp" these speakers, your 1st external amp will drive the tweeters & mid/woofers, and the ONLY thing your 2nd external amp will do is SEND the signal to the speaker's INTERNAL amp, which will drive the built-in subwoofer.

Waste of time. Don't even do it.

I think you should reread my post, as I did not say that one's external amplifier would be powering the woofers in those speakers. If one uses a typical amplifier with those, without using the line level input and sending a full range signal out of the separate power amplifier, that speaker will send the upper frequencies to the unpowered speakers in it, and will take the amplified bass part of the signal and dramatically reduce its level, and then re-amplify the bass for the woofer in it. But the bass is in such a case still being amplified by one's separate amplifier, which is a total waste of its abilities, as that power is not really being used. It would be better, if one's equipment will allow for this, to use the line level input on the speaker for the bass, and use one's separate amplifier to only amplify that portion of the frequency spectrum that is going to be sent to the unpowered portion of the speakers. That way, the external amplifier will be able to play louder, as it will not be amplifying the bass, which typically requires most of the power. But I don't know if the speakers and his other equipment are set up to do that properly.