Bi-Amping + Bi-Wiring. Noticable difference in midrange and Bass.

[Bluesmoke]

My previous setup...

Current setup. I'm using a 10 foot Canare 4S11 cable. Love this cable. Right now I have bare wires. Need to get some bananas and this time will look better than the one I made (top pic) before. Already have heat shrink from my older build.

I've noticed 2 things:

1. The Receiver (V663) gets hotter than before. Not by much but it is. Since I only have a 5.1 setup, I'm using the surround back channels to bi-amp.

2. The first thing I noticed. Tighter bass response. Before I disected my cables, I listened in "pure direct" to several songs that I'm familiar with.
After the wire mod, I find that there's a bit of lower end added to my setup. Volume is still the same at -20dbl on the receiver. My couch vibrates a touch bit when it didn't before. Also, the mids seem slightly more clear but I think it may be the placebo effect. Not sure.

Not a "OMG! I cannot believe I didn't do this before" type of reaction after the Bi-wire/amp, but one thing for certain it definately does not sound worse than before in anyway so that's a relief.

 

[j_garcia]

Adding more power should result in better control giving you some additional clarity and headroom. My issue with doing this from a receiver is, it is all the same power supply though, which means your total headroom for a given speaker is still limited in the same way that it was previously. The difference being that each of these channels is driving less of a load because it isn't driving the whole speaker, but the total amount of power available hasn't changed. That means, at lower levels it may benefit, but pushing it harder could actually be dangerous to your speakers.

I picked up an additional amp recently and the difference is quite noticeable. I went from 180w to 250w on my center and the difference in clarity and output is very obviously improved.

 

[Bluesmoke]

Adding more power should result in better control giving you some additional clarity and headroom. My issue with doing this from a receiver is, it is all the same power supply though, which means your total headroom for a given speaker is still limited in the same way that it was previously. The difference being that each of these channels is driving less of a load because it isn't driving the whole speaker, but the total amount of power available hasn't changed. That means, at lower levels it may benefit, but pushing it harder could actually be dangerous to your speakers.

I picked up an additional amp recently and the difference is quite noticeable. I went from 180w to 250w on my center and the difference in clarity and output is very obviously improved.

I plan on getting an amplifier. My room is small, so I listen at moderate volume levels. I don't think I've even taken my receiver below -18dbl on the volume scale. I generally watch movies at -25dbl and music at -22dbl.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I plan on getting an amplifier. My room is small, so I listen at moderate volume levels. I don't think I've even taken my receiver below -18dbl on the volume scale. I generally watch movies at -25dbl and music at -22dbl.

I would not rule out that it is just a placebo effect

 

[croseiv]

I've always had a hard time understanding how bi-wiring can change the sound to any degree as compared to using the shorting bars. Now Bi-amping makes more sense.

 

[j_garcia]

I've always had a hard time understanding how bi-wiring can change the sound to any degree as compared to using the shorting bars. Now Bi-amping makes more sense.

That's probably because bi-wiring does nothing

The jumpers are generally gold plated brass. I did notice a slight difference with Paradigm Studio 40s when I swapped the jumpers for some speaker wire, but it was not night and day.

 

[Rickster71]

The only time bi-wiring would make an audible difference, would be if the original wires were an AWG that was too small in the first place.
For example if you had a single run of 40-ft of 16-AWG with a 4 ohm load, and then run was bi-wired with 16 AWG. That would increase the effective wire size to 5160 Cir. Mils. or somewhere between 12 & 14 AWG.

If your speakers and wires are in a place that the rear connections are visible, bi-wiring looks cooler.

 

[jneutron]

It's good to experiment.

1. You may indeed be a victim of expectation bias. It is very difficult to eliminate that.

2. Arguments which claim there is no difference electrically are simple "steady state arguments", such as the (very well written) info Leseuf provides. For non steady state signals, that argument is incorrect. (edit: the steady state analysis assumes the stored energy within the crossovers, but transient signal conditions lack that).

3. Technical arguments which claim differences are below JND are flawed in that they do not consider human localization cue parametrics nor our dynamic response to changes with them. (edit: the conclusions may indeed be correct, but the methodology which arrives at that conclusion does not support it)

I cannot claim biwiring is audible, nor can I discount it. But I can recommend a test which has a far better chance of audibility success..as it eliminates the human adaptation of localization parameters that simple DBT testing ignores.

A. Use a mono signal.
B. Adjust the levels, speakers, and listening position such that the image is exactly in the center of the speakers.
C. Modify the connections on ONE speaker.
D. Listen for the focus of the soundstage, with attention paid to the exact location of all sounds. If no difference is found, the modification did nothing within human discrimination capabilities.

One day, others will understand what I speak of..








And then they can explain this goop to me...

Cheers, John

(edit: ps.. It appears that the red conductors are on opposite sides of the cable. If so, then the connection topology you have used allows inductive coupling between the cables. Personally, I'd have assigned the two reds to one section, and the two whites to the other..this of course raises a polarity issue, that has to be correct of course. But my recommendation is based on engineering/physics reasoning and NOT on an audibility argument.)

(gotta have fun, that's what life is all about.)