Bi-Amp Question with separates

[Ledformyhead]

I think I may know the answer to this but want to check with you guys. I want to bi-amp my mains in my System which are SVS Ultra Towers. My gear is a Pioneer SC-LX701 running as a pre / pro and my external amp is a Monolith 7X200. What I'm trying to do is use the free channel on my Monolith (back surround, I'm only currently running a 5.1 setup) to bi-amp the mains. The one problem I'm running into is that when I try and switch to bi-amp in my Elite receiver is cancels out my pre amp mode that I currently have it set to. The user manual says this will happen. I'm guessing it's because when I choose bi-amp in the Pioneer AVR it is saying "ok, what channels in this unit would you like to use?". And I'm asking it to remain a pre pro and use channels from an external amp to bi-amp the mains. Any thoughts.....other than I'm nuts to try bi amp my mains??? They are a tad power hungry and I thought going this route might improve things a tad. If I can't do this it's not a big deal because things are pretty damn good as they are.....and I know, "if it ain't broke don't fix it!".

 

[Leemix]

The only thing you need to do is use Y cables from the AVR to the amp so L and R will get 2 amp sections each. Remember to remove any connectors between mid/tweet and woofer speaker bindings or you will blow the amp. The AVR doesnt need to know you are bi-amping.

Let us know if there is any difference for you if you try.


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[j_garcia]

If you do a search on passive biamping, you'll find a lot of info on the fact that there is little benefit to doing this. It will not improve sound quality, though it will give you headroom.

 

[Ledformyhead]

The only thing you need to do is use Y cables from the AVR to the amp so L and R will get 2 amp sections each. Remember to remove any connectors between mid/tweet and woofer speaker bindings or you will blow the amp. The AVR doesnt need to know you are bi-amping.

Let us know if there is any difference for you if you try.


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Just so I'm clear in using the Y Cables....are you saying they should be used in the Pre Out section of the AVR to the amp? So I would be, if I'm following you, connecting the Y Cables to left main and right main pre outs of my AVR and then connecting to both the main L and R sections of my Amp and also to the L and R of my unused Surr Back Channel? Sorry if I'm not following it exactly......this would be my first attempt at bi-amping mains. If I do this I don't want to "F" it up, and yes I know to remove the connectors on the speakers but thanks for the added reminder, the goal here is definitely NOT to blow things up!

 

[Leemix]

Just so I'm clear in using the Y Cables....are you saying they should be used in the Pre Out section of the AVR to the amp? So I would be, if I'm following you, connecting the Y Cables to left main and right main pre outs of my AVR and then connecting to both the main L and R sections of my Amp and also to the L and R of my unused Surr Back Channel? Sorry if I'm not following it exactly......this would be my first attempt at bi-amping mains. If I do this I don't want to "F" it up, and yes I know to remove the connectors on the speakers but thanks for the added reminder, the goal here is definitely NOT to blow things up!

If by “unused surround back channel” you mean a labled amp section in the monolith 7ch amp then yes. Many multichannel amps arent labled like that but can be practical i guess instead of channel 1-7.


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[Ledformyhead]

If by “unused surround back channel” you mean a labled amp section in the monolith 7ch amp then yes. Many multichannel amps arent labled like that but can be practical i guess instead of channel 1-7.


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Yes they are labeled....and it's not necessary since all the Monolith amps are identical 200 watt channels, but that's how it's laid out. Another stupid question.....one male to two female I would presume as per what type of Y Connector? That would have me connecting the male to the pre outs of the AVR and then accepting my SVS sound path cables to my different amp sections. Correct?

Then no change as to having the Pioneer AVR set in its current pre amp mode and no switching to bi-amping since as you state the AVR doesn't need to know. Am I degrading the signal in any way by using these Y connectors?

 

[j_garcia]

Yes, since you are sending the same full signal to both amps, just using a Y as you described will work. You are confusing the internal biamping ability on the AVR with external biamping.

 

[Leemix]

Yes they are labeled....and it's not necessary since all the Monolith amps are identical 200 watt channels, but that's how it's laid out. Another stupid question.....one male to two female I would presume as per what type of Y Connector? That would have me connecting the male to the pre outs of the AVR and then accepting my SVS sound path cables to my different amp sections. Correct?

Then no change as to having the Pioneer AVR set in its current pre amp mode and no switching to bi-amping since as you state the AVR doesn't need to know. Am I degrading the signal in any way by using these Y connectors?

Usually it would be easier to just use all male ends so the single end into the AVR pre-out and the two other male ends into the monolith RCA inputs. No other cables in between. Unless you have some unusual reason extra connections are best avoided.

No meaningful degradation of signal with a Y cable unless something is wrong.

I connected my old processor and amp like this for not far off 20 years.


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[Ledformyhead]

Yes, since you are sending the same full signal to both amps, just using a Y as you described will work. You are confusing the internal biamping ability on the AVR with external biamping.

Any preference here or would both likely perform as well? Following are the links:

https://www.amazon.com/Sydien-Female-Y-Cable-Refitting-Braided/dp/B07CVY4ZJ8/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=y+connector+rca+audio+cable+male+to+two+female&qid=1617205218&refinements=p_36%3A1500-2500&rnid=386442011&s=electronics&sr=1-9

SVS Gold RCA Y Adapter

RCA Y adapter and splitter for subwoofer and AV component connections.

www.svsound.com

 

[Ledformyhead]

Usually it would be easier to just use all male ends so the single end into the AVR pre-out and the two other male ends into the monolith RCA inputs. No other cables in between. Unless you have some unusual reason extra connections are best avoided.

No meaningful degradation of signal with a Y cable unless something is wrong.

I connected my old processor and amp like this for not far off 20 years.


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Thanks for the feedback.....I'm currently using SVS soundpath cables from my AVR's pre-outs to my Amp. I want to keep those and not introduce new cables or as little as possible. If I follow you, you are suggesting a Y splitter directly from the AVR pre-outs to the amp and finding a Y splitter of high quality and the needed length (about 3-4 ft) is a bit tricky....although I'm sure they exist....plus don't want to buy new cables and then have a hodge podge of cables connecting my AVR to my Amp....want to stay consistent. Oh and paid a decent penny for the SVS soundpath cables too!

 

[Leemix]

Thanks for the feedback.....I'm currently using SVS soundpath cables from my AVR's pre-outs to my Amp. I want to keep those and not introduce new cables or as little as possible. If I follow you, you are suggesting a Y splitter directly from the AVR pre-outs to the amp and finding a Y splitter of high quality and the needed length (about 3-4 ft) is a bit tricky....although I'm sure they exist....plus don't want to buy new cables and then have a hodge podge of cables connecting my AVR to my Amp....want to stay consistent. Oh and paid a decent penny for the SVS soundpath cables too!

Adding another connection in that link is much much worse than any benefit from those cables. I also use good quality cables. You can probably get Y cables from SVS if you want that but adding a cable after a cable is weaker than the weakest link.


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[Ledformyhead]

Adding another connection in that link is much much worse than any benefit from those cables. I also use good quality cables. You can probably get Y cables from SVS if you want that but adding a cable after a cable is weaker than the weakest link.


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SVS doesn't carry Y Splitter cable but they do have the adapter I linked in a previous comment here. I'm sure your point is valid, which may make me want to lean more towards the previously mentioned adapter, I would be adding a connection but no more wiring to the link. I also listed a Y splitter cable that I think is high quality in the same comment. Your feedback IS appreciated!

 

[Ledformyhead]

Adding another connection in that link is much much worse than any benefit from those cables. I also use good quality cables. You can probably get Y cables from SVS if you want that but adding a cable after a cable is weaker than the weakest link.


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Actually now that I'm reading ALL the reviews on the Y Splitter wire adapter I linked I may be changing my tune on the quality of that cable. Seems as though it may not be up to snuff.

 

[Leemix]

Maybe check if bluejeans cables or similar brand make Y cables that are reasonably priced but good quality.
As long as the cables are well made and not strangely exotic its no problem to use one type for main LR and a different kind for the rest. The difference in main speaker and center channel construction (in the same speaker line) for example makes a whole heap more of a difference.


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[ryanosaur]

A single male to 2 female splitter or custom cable is what you want for this... if it is a good connection, the potential degradation is minimal. That said, you always want to minimize connection points.

If using an adapter, you will need something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-ULTRA-RCA-Y-Adapter-Inches/dp/B005DL2OVE/ref=pd_day0_3?pd_rd_w=M38mv&pf_rd_p=8ca997d7-1ea0-4c8f-9e14-a6d756b83e30&pf_rd_r=AVEPRB575T6SR6Z4WVPR&pd_rd_r=5c33fdfd-a76c-4612-9080-04009b026b9b&pd_rd_wg=jFQoY&pd_rd_i=B005DL2OVE&psc=1

 

[lovinthehd]

I wouldn't bother myself, passive bi-amping is of little to no benefit IMO.

 

[j_garcia]

Power hungry yes, but not 200W to the mids and highs hungry IMO. Do you have a massive room or super high SPL listening levels? I get that you have the spare channels and want to try it out but most often people attribute louder to "better" because they perceive that as somehow improving. The reality is, you didn't change the sound quality, only the quantity (can be turned up louder before distortion impacts performance) So, if it is not that it is running out of power now, the improvement is typically not as big as many people expect.

 

[Ledformyhead]

Not looking for louder......to me it's reference level right now as it hooked up. I agree louder is not better, just looking for some more headroom and possibly a tad more dynamics. I sure would not be expecting a night and day difference. It all started with an extra pair of SVS Ultra Speaker Cables being sent to me and before I send them back I got to thinking.....hmmmmm? In the end I may try it but I may be overthinking things a bit.....it's a disease!

I got two separate responses from SVS....one told me their adapter that I linked above would work well in this attempt and another told me basically "don't bother, the Monolith will drive them just fine as it is set up".

I appreciate all the feedback and any others that want to offer it. Always good to bounce things off other audioholics to find out if I'm sane, rational or starting to lose it!

 

[Pogre]

I used 2 of these (not that exact one, but basically the same) on the L/R preouts to my Monolith when I tried passive bi amping my Ultra towers and they worked great.

Hosa RCA Y-Adapter

Single RCA male to dual RCA female adapter

www.crutchfield.com

A pair of these would work too if you're under 12" from receiver to amp, and they look cool too.

Monoprice Onix Series - 1-Male to 2-Female RCA Y-Adapter, 12in, Black - Monoprice.com

Monoprice Onix Series Cable is made from premium quality RG-6/U with double copper braid shielding to prevent signal degradation caused by EMI and RFI interference. Featuring a single gold p

www.monoprice.com

 

[Ledformyhead]

I used 2 of these (not that exact one, but basically the same) on the L/R preouts to my Monolith when I tried passive bi amping my Ultra towers and they worked great.

Hosa RCA Y-Adapter

Single RCA male to dual RCA female adapter

www.crutchfield.com

A pair of these would work too if you're under 12" from receiver to amp, and they look cool too.

Monoprice Onix Series - 1-Male to 2-Female RCA Y-Adapter, 12in, Black - Monoprice.com

Monoprice Onix Series Cable is made from premium quality RG-6/U with double copper braid shielding to prevent signal degradation caused by EMI and RFI interference. Featuring a single gold p

www.monoprice.com

And what if any difference did you notice in the performance of your Ultra Towers?