better for music SVS pb12-nsd or HSU vtf2

[roger259]

Which sub SVS pb12 nsd or the HSU vtf-2 sounds better for playing music. Music is rock and roll, no rap and no country.

 

[Warpdrv]

I think there are different ways at looking at what your after here roger...

Some people prefer a tighter response from a Sealed sub, Generally sealed subs have a lower Q and they sound a bit dryer then a ported sub... In which they may use a term of being more musical or supposedly quicker... Both of the subs you have listed are pretty big ported subs, and whether or not you think they are musical is up to you.

I have an SVS Plus and I think it sounds very good with music... I have not heard the HSU... but I think they will be extremely close in their abilities here.

Fast is also a term that people used to use which is irrevelant as with the topology of drivers these days, there is no limit to how much power you can provide a sub, and its response is only limited to the capabilities of the driver.

A well built 18" driver with the proper delivery of power to it, can be extremely capable of producing great musical reproduction and sound incredible doing it.

So when I said in my last post to you that musical is a myth, there is truth behind it. What is at stake here the competance of the driver, enclosure, as well as power provided to come up with efficiency of the design.

I hope that helps...

 

[Gimpy Ric]

Which sub SVS pb12 nsd or the HSU vtf-2 sounds better for playing music. Music is rock and roll, no rap and no country.

I'm a 42 year old Rock fan, Alice in Chains, Metallica, AC/DC, Godsmack, and new rock like Lincon Park, and EVERYTHING on Squizz, the XM modern rock station.

I own a Hsu, and listen to music all day as I surf the net and run my message forums. The Hsu is VERY musical, even with the Turbo on it.

Give the Hsu a try, I think you'll be impressed. And set it up by ear, thats how I did mine, and I've never adjusted it since

Good Luck, and ROCK ON DUDE!

 

[j_garcia]

The simple answer is, either one will work and I doubt you'd be disappointed by either.

 

[annunaki]

A good quality sub will do well with any kind of source material. Sealed woofers are usually the most sought after for music systems that do not require plummbing of the extreme depths of the frequency scale.

 

[GlocksRock]

Most say the HSU is more musical and the SVS is better suited for movies, but the truth is both are excellent subs and will serve you well for either application. Go with the one you either like the looks of better, or the one that saves you the most money.

 

[speakerman39]

Roger, as a former SVS PB10-NSD AND PB12-NSD owner I must say that I did NOT find either of them musical. Both were very good with ht and were quite capable down low. I also owned a Mirage S12 that was MUCH more musical than either the PB10-NSD or the PB12-NSD. The S12 was also just as good with ht as the PB10-NSD. Keep in mind that the S12 is a 12" sub and the PB10-NSD is a 10" sub. However, the PB12-NSD offers much more visceral impact. Just today I got a Hsu VTF-3 MKIII and so far all I can say is WOW!!!!! The 3.3 is extremely musical in that it offers tight, punchy, articulate bass. My preference is on MUSIC performance and the 3.3 is superb. Right out of the box the 3.3 just sounds absolutely amazing. Money well invested imho. I am NOT knocking the SVS subs but just do NOT find the NSD drivers to be very musical at all. The Plus and the Ultra is much better in that regard. I must say though that the 3.3 is the best sub I have owned to date and it will NOT be going back to Hsu for a refund. That should tell you something. Good luck in your decision. Happy Hunting!!!!!

 

[roger259]

Thanks speakerman. Do you think the VTF2,3 for $500 is acceptable to your 3,3? Or, is the extra $130 worth the money?

 

[speakerman39]

Thanks speakerman. Do you think the VTF2,3 for $500 is acceptable to your 3,3? Or, is the extra $130 worth the money?

Roger I am not really sure. But, since the 3.3 is on sale for $629 I would have to believe that it is worth the extra money. Outlaw Audio also has the LFM-1 EX on sale for $549 plus s&h which would be very close to the 3.3. However, it is a down-firing sub w/the ports on the bottom. I probably would have gotten the LFM-1 EX if I had known about the sale before ordering my 3.3. I must admit though, that I am extremely pleased with the 3.3. The performance is absolutely amazing-still grininng from ear to ear. Good luck in your decision. Hope this helps.

 

[fmw]

I'm having a hard time coming to grips with the concept of assigning a term like "musical" to a loudspeaker. To me it is the recorded performance that is musical.

What would make a subwoofer lack "musicality?" Port pumping? Enclosure resonances? I would say those are characteristics of poorly designed or, perhaps, poorly adjusted subwoofers. As long as the subwoofer produces the lows without rattling or resonating itself, the result should be "musical" or, better, true to the original recorded and mixed performance.

In my experience, most audiophiles are too heavy handed with the subwoofer. Subs should be adjusted using an SPL meter and test tones to get as flat a frequency response as possible. If that is done, a competently designed sub should sound great and produce "musical" low frequencies. How one sub that is comparable in quality to another would vary in "musicality" is beyond me.

 

[speakerman39]

I'm having a hard time coming to grips with the concept of assigning a term like "musical" to a loudspeaker. To me it is the recorded performance that is musical.

What would make a subwoofer lack "musicality?" Port pumping? Enclosure resonances? I would say those are characteristics of poorly designed or, perhaps, poorly adjusted subwoofers. As long as the subwoofer produces the lows without rattling or resonating itself, the result should be "musical" or, better, true to the original recorded and mixed performance.

In my experience, most audiophiles are too heavy handed with the subwoofer. Subs should be adjusted using an SPL meter and test tones to get as flat a frequency response as possible. If that is done, a competently designed sub should sound great and produce "musical" low frequencies. How one sub that is comparable in quality to another would vary in "musicality" is beyond me.

fmw, I was able to get a "flat" frequency response in my room with respect to the PB12-NSD. This was accomplished with much help from Ed Mullen. However, the PB12 did NOT produce a tight, punchy, well-articulated bass line at all. It drove me nuts and that is why I now own the 3.3. Dont take me wrong, the PB12-NSD flat out kicks butt way down low offering lots of visceral impact. It is the sub to get for people that are true videophiles for sure. But, when listening to my music it left much to be desired. For example, kick drums were not very pronounced and I never got a tight controlled sound. Most of the time, the bass was slow and always seemed to be behind rythmically speaking resulting in lots of over-hang. Furthermore, things kinda got muddied up a bit and always sounding like only (1)-note was playing regardless of the transient response. I ran my MCACC on my receiver , then checked it w/my RS SPL meter. I even used my Rives Test CD II to plot my levels and adjust accordingly. Of course, I also tried several different placement options repeating that same process each and every time. IMHO, the PB12-NSD sounded best placed in between my LCD and my front right tower. This is exactly where the 3.3 is as we speak. So far musically speaking, there really is NO comparison in that the 3.3 is very tight, punchy, articulate and I am hearing good distinctness in the transient response. Moreover, I have the 3.3 in MO mode and that is where it will stay. I could care-less about ME mode and thus will NOT get a turbo. I may, however, get another 3.3 down the road when my funds are more available. Until then, I am loving my 3.3. Thanks once again Dr. Hsu you are a briallant.

 

[dannyk]

What are your thought on the SVS PB13-Ultra versus the Hsu VTF-3 MKIII for 75% music and 25% HT... in a large room, 22ftx25ft with a ceiling that slopes from ~ 11ft to ~20ft or so in the center. Accuracy is my main driver.

At this point, these are the two I am leaning towards.

Thx.

 

[speakerman39]

What are your thought on the SVS PB13-Ultra versus the Hsu VTF-3 MKIII for 75% music and 25% HT... in a large room, 22ftx25ft with a ceiling that slopes from ~ 11ft to ~20ft or so in the center. Accuracy is my main driver.

At this point, these are the two I am leaning towards.

Thx.

Danny, based on your criterion I would w/o a doubt go with the Ultra 13. However, you may want to also take a close look at the Epik Castle as it appears to be a very big bang for the buck AND is less expensive than the Ultra 13. Craigsub has ranked it very highly whereas the Ultra 13 only scored just a bit higher if my memory serves me correctly. But, with the Castle being less expensive. IMHO, you could not go wrong either way. I must say though my 3.3 is amazing. Good luck in your decision.

 

[Sheep]

If the subwoofer plays 1 thing well, it will play everything else thing well. The rest is just personal preference. The Source material is the same thing, it's frequencies from (input subwoofer's depth) - (where you have your subwoofer crossed over), plus a given amplitude (how loud it is). If you happen to like your music with emphasis in one area, and your HT flat, or whatever, you should EQ it so, using a flat, low distortion, low power compression subwoofer. Unless you buy a port-tunable subwoofer, that has 2 tunings that fit your preference.

Seems easier to just EQ it.

SheepStar

 

[Ron Temple]

Danny, based on your criterion I would w/o a doubt go with the Ultra 13. However, you may want to also take a close look at the Epik Castle as it appears to be a very big bang for the buck AND is less expensive than the Ultra 13. Craigsub has ranked it very highly whereas the Ultra 13 only scored just a bit higher if my memory serves me correctly. But, with the Castle being less expensive. IMHO, you could not go wrong either way. I must say though my 3.3 is amazing. Good luck in your decision.

The Castle did indeed score very highly, equaling (109) in total points the Ultra 13. It's a larger cabinet, with an extreme high excursion 15"driver, that Craig felt notched the Ultra in HT output (it should) and slightly less for music (breakdown was 59HT/50Music) It's a great score since the only subs that scored better for music were the Ultra, the Conquest and the A7-900. It's also available in Rosenut veneer. Epik's ported subs are large, even the Knight is slightly bigger than the Ultra. I'm excited by these offerings by newcomers like eD and Epik. It's going to raise the bar for all of us.

As for a recommendation...go with your heart.

 

[speakerman39]

The Castle did indeed score very highly, equaling (109) in total points the Ultra 13. It's a larger cabinet, with an extreme high excursion 15"driver, that Craig felt notched the Ultra in HT output (it should) and slightly less for music (breakdown was 59HT/50Music) It's a great score since the only subs that scored better for music were the Ultra, the Conquest and the A7-900. It's also available in Rosenut veneer. Epik's ported subs are large, even the Knight is slightly bigger than the Ultra. I'm excited by these offerings by newcomers like eD and Epik. It's going to raise the bar for all of us.

As for a recommendation...go with your heart.

Very well spoken there Ron. It does appear at this point in time that Chad is surely raising the bar with respect to " bang" for your buck. I was looking at both the Valor and the Knight but opted for the 3.3 instead. Even in my case, I surely believe I would have been happy going w/any of them. My 3.3 has impressed me and is the BEST sub I have owned to date. However, if my budget allowed chances are I would have gotten a Castle or perhaps the Ultra 13. Both Epik and SVS have developed fantastic products as of late BUT it will be quite interesting to see how Hsu Research responds. Only time will tell. Personally, I can't wait myself.

 

[dannyk]

HT vs Music Scores

In Craigsubs reviews, can someone explain the (HT-M) scores? Who is Craig and how did he become the (un)official reviewer of subs?
Thx.

 

[mazersteven]

In Craigsubs reviews, can someone explain the (HT-M) scores? Who is Craig and how did he become the (un)official reviewer of subs?
Thx.

Craig is a guy who has a passion for audio. Because of this passion (and the fact that Craig is financially secure) he has purchased, measured, and tested many many different subwoofers and speakers.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=881717&highlight=craigsub

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=931069&highlight=craigsub

Read this (Post #76 in particular)

http://av123forum.com/showthread.php?t=23569&highlight=craigsub

Pictures of the GTG

http://forums.soundandvisionmag.com/audiovideo/board/message?board.id=40&thread.id=80710

 

[gus6464]

Craig is a guy who has a passion for audio. Because of this passion (and the fact that Craig is financially secure) he has purchased, measured, and tested many many different subwoofers and speakers.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=881717&highlight=craigsub

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=931069&highlight=craigsub

Read this (Post #76 in particular)

http://av123forum.com/showthread.php?t=23569&highlight=craigsub

Pictures of the GTG

http://forums.soundandvisionmag.com/audiovideo/board/message?board.id=40&thread.id=80710

Man those x-static open baffle speakers look awesome. Did they sound as good as they looked?

 

[dannyk]

I appreciate the info... and craig's work, wish I had that job!