Best way to listen to music

[Ras777]

Sorry for the ignorance but here it goes. I have a Marantz 6007/Emotiva XPA- 3, Aperion grand towers and satellite speakers and subs. It is a 7.2 system. The Marantz powers the satellites and the Emotiva powers the fronts. When watching movies I just use the best format the Blu-ray offers...But when listening to music I can listen in Direct, Pure direct, Stereo, Multi-channel stereo. Each seems to have their own limitations. Direct and pure do not include my subs. Muti-channel sounds fuller but I don't want to damage my satellites when playing at louder levels. Stereo obviously only utilizes my towers which sound great when listening to at higher levels. Any suggestions? Curious how other forum members listen to their music thru their HT systems.

 

[j_garcia]

Stereo should give you the mains + sub, while direct/pure should not. That means you have your mains set to large, when in fact they should be small with a lower x-over set. That is most often how I listen to 2ch audio. M/C stereo sounds wrong no matter how you slice it on every system I've ever heard it on.

Your towers are -3dB @ 45 Hz, which would still indicate they'd be OK with an 80Hz x-over, but they extend to -6dB @ 35Hz so you could almost certainly try 60Hz. When in pure/direct, they would be full range and no subs, so you can have it either way.

 

[KenM10759]

What is the difference between direct and pure? I didn't know a receiver had two versions.

 

[j_garcia]

I believe Pure direct disables processing and turns off non-essential circuitry, such as video output and the front display. Direct does not do that, it only removes bass management and some processing, but sends a signal "as is" from the source in whatever format it is in.

 

[3db]

I believe Pure direct disables processing and turns off non-essential circuitry, such as video output and the front display. Direct does not do that, it only removes bass management and some processing, but sends a signal "as is" from the source in whatever format it is in.

That's for the Marantz?

 

[KenM10759]

I was just looking at the manual for my NAD T758 receiver and it seems a REALLY convoluted process to get the direct mode output. Here's what it says:

The analog or digital sources are automatically played in their native formats. All the source’s audio channels are reproduced directly. This mode recreates the original sound most faithfully thereby producing outstandingly high quality audio. Note that the source must be at playback mode for “Direct” to become available as a listening mode option. In order to automatically playback your source in their native format, implement the following settings.
1 Go to “Listening Mode Setup” under “Setup Menu”. At the “Listening Modes” menu, set all Dolby, DTS, PCM and Analog settings to “None”. With this setup, your source will be played back directly at its native format.
2 Next, go to “A/V Presets” under “Setup Menu”. At “A/V Presets” menu, set “Listening Mode” item to “Yes” and then save this setting among other options, say to “Preset 1”, by selecting “Save Current Setup to Preset”.
3 Now, you can associate “Preset 1” to any of the “Source” settings. For example, at Source 1 setting under “Source Setup (Normal View)”, scroll down to “A/V Preset” item and set it to “Preset 1”. Thus whenever Source 1 is selected, the associated source will always be directly played back at its native audio format.

I don't know if it's worth the trouble because it's not clear to me if I go back to "Stereo" or other modes if I have re-engaged any Dolby, DTS, PCM or other coding. Does anyone know how to decipher that mess?

It also say the following about "Stereo" mode, and that's what I use most times while listening to digital files fed from my Bluesound Vault, CD player or turntable.

STEREO
Output is directed to the front left/right channels. Low frequencies are directed to the subwoofer if one is present in the Speaker settings. Select “Stereo” when you wish to listen to a stereo (or monaural) production, such as music CD or FM broadcast, without surround enhancement. Stereo recordings whether in PCM/digital or analog form and whether surround-encoded or not encoded, are reproduced as recorded. Multi-channel digital recordings (Dolby Digital and DTS) are reproduced in “Stereo Downmix” mode via the front left/right channels only as Lt/Rt (left/right-total) signals.

I think I should just keep using this. Sometimes I toggle to "Bypass Analog" mode and that disables output to the sub and seems to put more bass though the speakers so I'm thinking this is effectively giving me a sort of direct mode. Thoughts?

 

[Ras777]

My mains have always been set to small and my crossover is set to 80hz. So when listening to music in stereo do you find that you have to increase the output level of the subs to get them to sound good with music?

 

[KenM10759]

My mains have always been set to small and my crossover is set to 80hz. So when listening to music in stereo do you find that you have to increase the output level of the subs to get them to sound good with music?

I don't increase the level on the sub. If anything, I have to shut it off to get the best sound from the mains. See above. The "Bypass Analog" mode on my receiver seems to do that, shut the sub off and disable the low frequency cutoff.

 

[Ras777]

So you don't like utilizing your sub?

 

[KenM10759]

Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. Certainly yes for DVD/BluRay movies and yes for most music. Some music just sounds better using the LF abilities of my floor standing speakers. Other times I forgo the low frequencies in deference to the comfort of the first floor tenant below me and my system.

 

[j_garcia]

That's for the Marantz?

Yes. May be different for other manufacturers. I never found Pure Direct to make much difference to my ears. Most of the Oppos also have a mode like this as well, that shuts off all the video circuitry and the display and leaves only the audio output.

 

[KenM10759]

I don't think I need to go through all those steps with my receiver to get what I believe to be a direct type of listening mode. Until I got this receiver I had a Denon AVR1912 and it had "Direct" as a one button push mode. Essentially I seem to have the same thing with the NAD as I toggle through eight mode options, from Dolby PLIIx Music, Dolby PLIIx Movie, Neo:6 Cinema, Neo:6 Music, EARS, Enhanced Stereo, Stereo, and get to that Bypass Analog.

It sounds great as 2.0 in that mode.

 

[sterling shoote]

My mains are set to large. I occasionally operate in stereo with sub when playing house/dance music; but, for most music, I run stereo without sub. It just sounds less exaggerated. For movies I run full 5.1.

 

[3db]

Yes. May be different for other manufacturers. I never found Pure Direct to make much difference to my ears. Most of the Oppos also have a mode like this as well, that shuts off all the video circuitry and the display and leaves only the audio output.

I don't know about the Marantz but there is big difference between Pure Direct and stereo . However, I detected no difference between Pure Direct and Direct on my Yamaha RX-V1500. What's more interesting is that Yamaha took away the Direct mode on the RX-V1800 offering stereo, straight, and Pure Direct in that class of sound.

From the RX-V1500 perspective, Pure Direct turns off everything Digital not required to pass the signal from its input to its output including the front panel display. YPAO is also turned off and there is no bass management.. The same thing holds true for Direct except that I get the front panel display. Stereo and straight gives me evrything back that is digital. The difference between stereo and straight is that straight passes all channels played by the source component while stereo muxes the additional channels into 2 channel sound.

What I said for the RX-V1500 holds true for the RX-V1800 for pure Direct, Straight, and Stereo.

 

[herbu]

Curious how other forum members listen to their music thru their HT systems.

I currently have a Denon X4000 which I believe is quite similar in operation to your Marantz. It has been my experience with the Denon and every other AVR I've owned, that:
1. The is no audible different between Direct and Pure Direct.
2. With excellent speakers, and at higher volumes, Direct sounds best for music.

I used to have your Aperion Verus Grand Towers. (Still do, but have relegated them to surround duty.) With Direct, they didn't have the bass I like, and the mids were not quite as crisp as with Stereo mode.
Even with excellent speakers, at lower volumes Direct is not as crisp, and the bass is lacking. But as I increase the volume, I can go to Direct and music sounds great, ("better" to me).

Keep in mind there is no "right" or "best" way. There is only the way you like most. People can tell you, "this way is more accurate", or "that way is how the audio engineers intended". That kind of advice is, at best, interesting. It's your system, your music, your house and your ears. Try them all, and use the one you like for any particular situation.

 

[Ras777]

Thanks to everyone that responded. Herbu I think your analysis is spot on. Before setting up my HT Three years ago it had been years since I was interested in "Stereo Equipment". My last system was from the eighties. You had an amp and two speakers and if you were real lucky a graphic equalizer. It can get a bit confusing with the digital processing when I just want to play one of my Van Halen CD's( yes I am old). Herbu do you not like your Aperion Grand Towers? For what's it worth I think the sound pretty good for the money. They had great reviews but on this forum, they don't seem to get any praise.

 

[herbu]

Herbu do you not like your Aperion Grand Towers?

I loved them! Started w/ 2 in the front, (and the matching Center). Liked them so much, I got 2 more and used them as Surrounds. Continued to like them so much I got 2 more and added them as Rear Surrounds. So my whole 7.2 system was 6 Grand Towers and Grand Center, (plus a couple subs).

After a while, my budget grew and I became corrupted by the people on this site. I was curious to take the next step in speakers. So I got 2 new speakers for the Left/Right. They were about twice the cost of the Aperions. So now I have 2 of the towers just sitting in storage upstairs.

So don't listen to the addicts on this site, start another hobby into which you can pour your extra money, and you should enjoy your speakers for many years to come.

 

[Ras777]

Herbu,

Wow! You are using Grand Towers as your surround speakers. I never heard of this. Why would you invest so much money into speakers that are just used for effects? Curious on what you are using for your front towers. Do you feel they were worth the extra money. I just sold my Aperion 10D subs. Thinking about replacing them with two HSU VTF-15H MK2.

 

[herbu]

Why would you invest so much money into speakers that are just used for effects?

It's a disease. I was corrupted. Addicted. Not my fault. (You might be surprised how much a few folks here have in their surrounds.)

Besides, when you upgrade/replace your fronts, what do you do with the old pair? Sell them, store them, or move them back to surround duty.

Curious on what you are using for your front towers. Do you feel they were worth the extra money.

Philharmonic 3s.
http://philharmonicaudio.com/phil3.html
YES! They're worth twice their cost. Even more! Ask anybody.

 

[Ras777]

Well I can think of worst things to be addicted too. Considering your demanding tastes what do you think of the subwoofers I'm considering. I need to pressurize 3200 cubic feet?