Best Reciever and Speakers for $1800

nb79

nb79

Audiophyte
Hi There,

I have $1800 to spend and looking at buying a reciever and speakers.

Situation:
Room is 14ft x 14ft
Speakers need to be on the small side (No towers)
Thinking 7.1 system as Bluray is next purchase.
Want HD Upscaling and true HD Sound.
Ipod dock (if possible)

Thoughts?

Was looking at the Yamaha HTR-6180 Reciever (Around $600) and Bose Acousticmass 16 Speakers and buying extra speaker ($1200+). i know Bose is overpriced for what they are, so recommendations are welcome.

Thanks
 
J

jamie2112

Banned
For god sakes don't buy bose! There are so many great alternatives to bose. What do you need in a AVR? Do you need HDMI do you need pre outs ect? I will suggest the Yamaha VX-663 avr. I would also check out SVS and AV123 as well as the Audioholics store right here.
 
adk highlander

adk highlander

Sith Lord
Do you want scaling or upconverting? Most of the newer recievers will upconvert to HDMI so you will only have to run one cable to your display. If you want scaling then you will need to look at models like the Onkyo 875 that will do this well plus have enough power to run any speakers you choose.

I have seen that KEF is updating their IQ series so the IQ5's towers and the matching center and surrounds can be had for very good pricing.

As jamie mentions also look at AV123, Emotiva and Aperion which are internet direct speaker dealers and offer free in home trials.

What do you have in your area to go in and demo?
 
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R

rnatalli

Audioholic Ninja
Welcome!

Spend 2/3 of your budget on speakers as they're most important. Don't buy Bose. Choosing speakers is completely subjective so you have to let your ears decide. Here are a few options in your price range you can check out:

Receiver: Yamaha 663, Onkyo 606, or Pioneer 1018
Speakers: http://www.svsound.com/products-sys-sbs_black.cfm

Receiver: Yamaha 663, Onkyo 606, or Pioneer 1018
Speakers: http://av123.com/component/page,shop.product_details/flypage,shop.flypage/product_id,281/category_id,21/manufacturer_id,0/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,37/

For a small profile-

Receiver: Yamaha 663, Onkyo 606, or Pioneer 1018
Speakers: http://www.orbaudio.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3

My usual speaker audition list for new people includes PSB, Monitor Audio, Axiom, Orb, Ascend, Av123, and Aperion.
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
Receiver: Yamaha 663, Onkyo 606, or Pioneer 1018
Speakers: http://www.svsound.com/products-sys-sbs_black.cfm
I absolutely can't express enough how much better performance, impact, sound quality, and fun this system is over Bose. IMO this system is one of the best "bang for the buck" budget systems on the market.

Recieve a rare 10% SVS factory discount! SBS/SCS-01 speakers shipping O/A Oct. 31st. Order now!
7.1 Surround Sound Speakers with PB12-NSD - Black ** $1,299
 
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F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
1) Do not buy Bose

2) Do not buy Bose (just like Fight Club, the first rule is so important, it needs to be said twice)

3) Don't be like Fight Club and break the first 2 rules anyway.

4) Seriously...do not buy Bose.

5) I sincerely hope your room is not exactly 14' x 14' . If it is, no speakers on Earth are going to sound good in there. A perfectly square room means BIG TIME standing waves.

6) The room has more to do with what you will hear than ANY EQUIPMENT.

Before you start thinking about anything in the way of speakers, receivers, whatever...PAY ATTENTION TO YOUR ROOM.

7) You've got a decent budget - use some of it to acoustically treat your room!

a) BASS TRAPS!

Even if your room is not a perfect square (and let's hope that it isn't), I'm going to assume that it's close to being square. As such, standing waves are going to be a problem - no way around it. Bass traps will help. They can't solve the issue entirely, but they can help.

I suggest you treat all four corners of your room with bass traps.

b) Due to the relatively small size of your room, I'm going to highly recommend Auralex Acoustics for your room treatment needs.

c) Thankfully, for your room size and budget, it's super easy! Just get one of the Auralex Alpha-DST Kits for ~$400 and you get everything you need to treat your room all in one handy package!

Neeto :D

d) If you hate the looks of the Alpha-DST Kit products, you can substitute other acoustic treatment products, but for your budget and room size, the Alpha-DST Kit is exactly right, so use that as a good guide in terms of what you need and then just chose products that more closely suit your desires in terms of looks.

You can see the full suit of Auralex Products for ideas

e) When it comes to placing the acoustic treatment products, here's what you do. Put a Bass Trap in each corner. Treat the front of your room, the side walls and the ceiling with the small, thin panels.

IF YOU ARE SITTING WITH YOUR HEAD CLOSE TO THE BACK WALL, BE SURE TO TREAT THE WALL DIRECTLY BEHIND YOUR HEAD AS WELL.

If, however, you have at least 6 feet from the back of you head to the wall behind you, you don't have to treat the back wall.

The idea for a movie theater setup is that sound coming from the front three speakers needs to be very clear, precise and pin-point accurate, while the surround speakers are supposed to be diffuse and difficult to localize in order to provide ambience and a "wrap-around" effect.

Sounds coming from the front are supposed to "wash over you" and then "disappear" into the back of the room. That is way it is very important to treat the wall behind you if you are sitting closer than 6 feet from it.

The other very important areas to treat with the panels are the side reflection points - most importantly, the "first reflection" points (hey...that's my name! What a koinky-dink! :p )

The "first reflection" points are where the sound would bounce off the side walls directly to your ears. Imagine a billiard ball being shot from the speaker, bouncing off the side wall and coming to your ears. Where ever the billiard ball would hit the side wall for that to happen? That's the reflection point and you want to put some panels there.

Same goes for the reflection points on the ceiling.

You also want to treat the front wall of the room. Why? Because you do not want sound to get reflected from the surround speakers, off the front wall and then to your ears. Remember, everything coming from the front of the room is supposed to sound clear, distinct and pin-point accurate. You can't get that if there's sounds bouncing off of the front wall, can you? ;)

The back portion of the room should be left largely untreated though. You DO want sound bouncing around the back of the room because this is where the surround speakers play and they are supposed to sound ambient and less pin-point accurate.

Once again, directly behind your head is a good place to treat because you don't want the sound from the front speakers bouncing directly off of the back wall and to your ears from behind you! But most of the back of the room should be left "live" without panels so that the surround speakers can bounce their sound around back there.

8) NOW - with your room nicely treated - in a room that is only some 14 feet long, you probably aren't going to want a 7.1 speaker setup. A 5.1 speaker setup is actually more likely to sound better in a short room like that.

The 6th and 7th "surround back" speakers only came into being because in a large theater - where you've got a very long distance from the back of your head to the wall behind you - the reflected sound off of the back wall from the surround speakers gets totally lost and instead of hearing a "wrap-around" effect, you only get sounds from the front and sides. The 6th and 7th "surround back" speakers "fill in" that gap.

But in a small theater, where your head is quite close to the back wall, you get plenty of reflected sound from the standard surround speakers and there's no need for "surround back" speakers in order to create the "wrap-around" effect.

Furthermore, in a small theater, having those 6th and 7th "surround back" speakers puts them ridiculously close to your head! You wind up hearing them so clearly and so distinctly that it mucks up the front soundstage! This is bad, bad, bad. Not Bose bad. But bad.

End result? In a small room, like yours, 5.1 is actually the better way to go! You still completely get the "wrap-around" effect - there's no worries of that. And you keep the back of the room ambient while the front of the room remains pin-point accurate and clear. The surround channels do not over-power the front and you don't lose the ambient nature of the surround channels due to having a 6th and 7th "surround back" speaker playing straight into the back of your head!

9) Trust me. I've rambled on with a TON of text already. And I know what I'm talking about. But I know you're thinking, "but...I really wanted 7.1..."

Nope. Nopey nope nope. 5.1 is better in your room. Trust me.

But since you probably won't and will probably still want 7.1 anyway, let me just say that is you MUST put 7 speakers in your room, even though 5 speakers will actually sound better, then use diffuse speakers in those 6th and 7th "surround back" positions. Do not use direct-radiating surround back speakers that will just be firing straight into the back of your head!

5 speakers is still the best way to go here. But if you just MUST put 7 in your 14' long room - because your tummy will ache if you don't - then put diffuse speakers (like di-poles) back there.

It'll all sound super mushy and less clear than if you just used 5 speakers, but hey..."mushy" is better than, "what did that guy just say? I couldn't hear because my rad 6th and 7th speakers were firing directly into the back of my head!"

10) Get the SVSound SBS-01 $999 5.1 speaker package that other people have already mentioned. For this price point, there is nothing better IMO. You might be able to eek out ever so slightly better speakers, but then you'd majorily sacrifice on the sub. Or you could eek out a tiny bit better of a sub, but then have to get lesser speakers. This package is the sweetness for $1000. Buy it.

11) STOP! You don't need a 6th and 7th speaker! Trust Me!

12) $50 now gets spent of the single most crucial piece of equipment in this whole entire setup - the Auralex GRAMMA

I am not exaggerating or kidding around when I say this. The GRAMMA makes such a huge difference to your bass response that it is, without question, something that you MUST have resting underneath your subwoofer.

What the GRAMMA does is decouple the subwoofer from the floor. Normally, with the subwoofer sitting directly on the floor, more vibration than you would imagine gets sent into the floor. As a result, the floor itself shakes, which, in turn, shakes the walls, which shake the structure of your house, which results in the whole house being able to hear your subwoofer rumbling away and a bunch of people screaming at you to "turn down that noise!"

Not fun.

Worse than that, with all of those surfaces of your house shaking in sympathy with your sub, you get major distortion in the form of resonance and structure-borne transmission of the subwoofer's sound eminating all throughout the entire house!

The GRAMMA puts a stop to all that. It decouples the subwoofer from the floor so that the floor no longer shakes in sympathy with the subwoofer. You get tighter, cleaner, far more accurate bass and everyone else gets a WAY quieter house! Win, win, win and for $50, it's a no-brainer!

So...that leaves us rather little for a receiver. Thankfully, you don't have to spend a ton for a very nice receiver these days!

For this price point, nothing's going to beat the Onkyo TX-SR606 . And at $350, it fits perfectly - like a glove! - into this unbelievably better-than-Bose $1800 system!

13) In summary:

- Auralex Alpha-DST Kit ............ $400
- Auralex GRAMMA ................... $50
- SVSound SBS-01 package ...... $1000
- Onkyo TX-SR606 ....................$350

Total = $1800

- Not making the worst mistake of your A/V life by buying Bose? ..... Priceless

14) If you still buy Bose, I will never ever be your friend again. I'm serious. No take-sies back-sies

Good luck!
 
M

mike_wassell

Audioholic Intern
I would take a look at the Energy take 5 system. It is available on Amazon. If you upgrade to a 7.1 system and add a second sub this system would be in your price range. I really like the Onkyo receivers. Also consider DIY acoustic treatment. With a square room acoustic treatment will really help. There are lots of web sites on DIY acoustic treatments. I saved a ton of money by buying mineral wool locally as opposed to Owens Corning 703 and 705. If you look at these articles you will know what I am talking about. Below are some good places to start.

ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html
realtraps.com/info.htm

Sorry I posted the links this way but since this is only my 3dr post I cannot post links and had to deleat the ww*. htt*://

Mike
 
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A

allargon

Audioholic General
I would take a look at the Energy take 5 system. It is available on Amazon. If you upgrade to a 7.1 system and add a second sub this system would be in your price range. I really like the Onkyo receivers. Also consider DIY acoustic treatment. With a square room acoustic treatment will really help. There are lots of web sites on DIY acoustic treatments. I saved a ton of money by buying mineral wool locally as opposed to Owens Corning 703 and 705. If you look at these articles you will know what I am talking about. Below are some good places to start.

ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html
realtraps.com/info.htm

Sorry I posted the links this way but since this is only my 3dr post I cannot post links and had to deleat the ww*. htt*://

Mike
How did you enclose the mineral wool? That is some nasty stuff to have out in the open.
 
D

dallen341

Audiophyte
Hi There,

I have $1800 to spend and looking at buying a reciever and speakers.

Situation:
Room is 14ft x 14ft
Speakers need to be on the small side (No towers)
Thinking 7.1 system as Bluray is next purchase.
Want HD Upscaling and true HD Sound.
Ipod dock (if possible)

Thoughts?

Was looking at the Yamaha HTR-6180 Reciever (Around $600) and Bose Acousticmass 16 Speakers and buying extra speaker ($1200+). i know Bose is overpriced for what they are, so recommendations are welcome.

Thanks
How about a Denon AVR-1909? (Shameless plug) I happen to have one for sale that is 2-1/2 months old.
 
nb79

nb79

Audiophyte
Thanks everyone for the advise...this is all good.

Don't worry, I'm not going to buy Bose!! i was told by a friend that if I siad i was going to buy bose I would get better answers! I suppose this is true!

FirstReflection - What an Answer!!! I would love to improve the rooms acoustics but the wife may have something to say!

Thanks everyone!
 
M

mike_wassell

Audioholic Intern
How did you enclose the mineral wool? That is some nasty stuff to have out in the open.

One of the insulation companies I found locally told me that they could order whatever I wanted (Owens Corning, Knauf, etc.) but that they had some IIG MinWool Sound Attenuating Fire Batt in stock that was left over from a previous job and they would sell it do me at a discounted price. So I picked up about 40 panels of 24” x 48” x 2” IIG MinWool Sound Attenuation Fire Batt Insulation at approximately $0.20 a square foot that’s about $1.60 a panel. $1.60 for a 24” x 48” panel of 2” thick IIG MinWool as opposed to $12.00 a panel for 2” thick OC 703. The sound attenuating propertied of these two items are practically identical.

The first problem I encountered is the MinWool was very flexible and friable. I would think the more rigid stuff would be easier to work with but it cost more. I wore gloves, long sleeve shirt, and a respirator when working with the mineral wool. Once I had the mineral wool in place I removed the gloves and respirator. This material would definitely require a frame with a back. So I decided to use burlap for the back. I was not too crazy about the texture and color of the burlap so I decided to use acoustically transparent fabric from Acoustimac for the front of the panels. The fabric is about $9.00 a yard however it is 60-64” wide so one yard will cover one panel. This material has a great texture is stretchable and comes in a nice variety of colors.

For the frame I used 1” x 4” x 8’ pine stripping. This is the lowest grade of pine that can be found it was about $1.65 for an 8’ board. I had to inspect every board carefully before I bought it because most of them are bowed, warped, or damaged. However after weeding through the boards I was able to find enough good boards to make all of the frames for my panels. I had much better luck finding good boards at Home Depot as opposed to Lowes.

I made 24” x 48” (inside measurement) frames. I laid the frame down on the good fabric. I put the mineral wool inside the frame sitting on top of the good fabric. I stapled the burlap in the back inside of the frame. Then I stretched and stapled the good fabric inside the back of the frame. The corners folded over very easily – just like wrapping a gift. I stapled both the burlap and fabric to the inside of the back of the frame. Makes it look a lot cleaner when it is hanging.

I hung my panels using a French Cleat made from the left over scraps of framing wood. If you don’t know what a French Cleat is just do a web search and you will soon find out.

It cost me about $15.00 to make a 2’ x4’ acoustical treatment panel. I treated about 33% of my room’s surface area not counting the floor. I made approximately 30 panels. I could have made them a lot cheaper if I would have used burlap to cover both the front and back of the panels. In that case they would have been approximately $7.50 a panel. However the panels I made turned out real nice. The main reason they were so cheap is because I was flexible on the type of insulation, wood, and fabric I used and called around to get the best price. Most of this type of insulation (rigid fiberglass, mineral wool and rock wool) has very similar acoustical properties. The acoustical properties for the individual products can usually be found on the manufactures web site. I also made some bass traps. I just increased the width of the wood frame and used 3 panels of mineral wool inside the frame as opposed to one for the acoustic panels. The acoustic panels are mounted at the reflection points about ear height when sitting (tweeter height). The bass traps were mounted in the corners.
 
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