Best Receiver for ~ $400 or Less?

[Melee]

I am looking for a Receiver to drive this System and I'm trying to be careful as I have read these speakers (excluding the Sub) can be somewhat difficult to drive:

Infinity Primus P363 Fronts x2
Infinity Primus PC351 Center
Infinity Primus P163 Surrounds x2
Emotiva Ultra 12 Sub (MOST likely but still not 100% decided)

I currently own a Denon AVR-791 (which I don't like) that I am going to sell. The features and user interface on this receiver are extremely primitive and I am just not happy with it overall so I would like to pick up something else for my new system.

The two options at the top of my list right now are:

Pioneer VSX-1120-K
Yamaha RX-V667

How would these two AVR's fare with my System and which is the better of the two? Can someone possibly do a breakdown comparison of these to each other?

Are there any other receivers that are better options? I don't want another Denon and the Marantz and Harman Kardon's are all out of my price range.

I have no problem buying Refurbished or Used as long as it's in great shape and from an authorized dealer.

Thanks so much for the help!

 

[HexOmega]

I'm biased towards the Yamaha because I own one, but with those two being so similar, I'd say go for whichever costs less. For the money I'd be willing to bet that the Yamaha has a better amp section. Also, keep an eye on the current Yamaha models; it seems that many retailers are having specials to move them before the next versions are released.

 

[Melee]

Do either of these EQ the Sub as well? I know only a select few of the low-mid range receivers do so and I can't really find anything about it anywhere.

 

[HexOmega]

Do either of these EQ the Sub as well? I know only a select few of the low-mid range receivers do so and I can't really find anything about it anywhere.

The RX-V667 does not EQ below ~60Hz.

If you have a bass suckout problem at around say, 50Hz like I do, then this can be a little frustrating.

 

[Melee]

Well, my room is small and awkwardly designed which is what makes me nervous so I would definitely like to have a Receiver that can EQ the Sub if at all possible. I have three walls that are solid (including the wall with the door, the wall to the left of it with a window, and the back wall with the television on it) and then the right wall when you walk in is a closet that juts out into the floor with an outcove between it and the back wall where my bed is.

I'm afraid that if I don't have something to properly EQ the Sub, that it is going to sound terrible. lol

 

[rnatalli]

Unfortunately, the only receivers that EQ the sub are ones using MultEQ like your Denon and Marantz which you don't want. Onkyo also has receivers like the 270 and it uses MultEQ, but $79 more than you want to spend. Harman Kardon's are not out of your price range as JR was selling 2600 receivers for under $400 shipped just recently.

 

[Melee]

Being able to automatically EQ the Sub with the rest of the system is extremely important, isn't it? That's what I'm assuming from all that I have read.

How do people make their Subs sound right without it, though? I know a lot of people own other Receivers that have MCACC, YPAO, etc. that don't have MultEQ so there has to be a way, right?

How would the HK 2600 compare to these two and the Denon that I currently have?

Thanks!

 

[avnetguy]

How do people make their Subs sound right without it, though?

I use a Behringer DSP1124 for setting up the sub with REW. I setup two of the many available filter groups with room corrections, one for music (nearly flat) and one for movies (higher bass, about +6db).

 

[Melee]

Alright, so I'm looking to spend $400 or less on the Receiver and I don't mind buying last years models but I would rather not go older than that as I will start to lose a lot of the useful "newer tech" options. With the 2010 models, I mainly only lose the 3D support, right? I could honestly care less about that.

I was considering getting either a Pioneer VSX-1120-K or Yamaha RX-V667, however they do not EQ the Sub which is a huge deal for me.

I would really rather have the MultEQ to EQ the Sub as I'm new to all of this and wouldn't be able to do it, otherwise.

There are a few of the Onkyo's that have MultEQ such as the 708/707, 808/807, RC-HT270, etc. What do you think of one of those options if I can find them cheap?

I can also get a Harman Kardon 2600 for $419 Shipped but their site does a horrible job of listing the specs so I'm not sure how it compares.

Going back to Denon but upgrading to their higher models, I could go with either an 890 or 2310 Refurb for less than $400. Would those be different in regard to my complaints about the 791 or are they basically the same?

Basically, what do you think is my best option for around $400? lol Should I stick with Denon or is there a better option out there?

 

[GranteedEV]

I would get Yamaha over Pioneer. Their current line of receivers looks like it's got excellent amp sections.

With that said, if you're willing to go for HDMI 1.3 instead of HDMI 1.4 I recommend

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARSR5004/Marantz/SR5004-90w-X-7ch-Home-Theater-Surround-Receiver/1.html

I'm not sure about the current x005 series receivers but i know the x003 and x004 have very good amps.

 

[psbfan9]

Onkyo

I doubt you can find a Yamaha 667 for $400.00 or less. I would suggest an Onkyo 608. I looked at both the 608 and 667 and ended up with the 608 and it suits my needs.

Vann's has it on sale sometimes for $379.00.

 

[Melee]

Marantz is definitely one of my top choices.

In regards to Yamaha, I've read a lot about people not liking the way they make certain speakers sound, especially that they make them sound too bright. I'm not sure if the receiver can have THAT much of an effect on the speakers, but I've read several different opinions that said the same thing.

It looks like the only options that have great features and MultEQ in my price range would be:

Marantz 5005/5004
Denon 2311/2310 and 891/890
Onkyo 708/707 and RC-HT270 (Not sure if it has a recent predecessor?)

Which do you guys think will have the best sound, features, power, etc?

@psbfan9, Here is the Yamaha RX-V667 for $413 Shipped and Brand New. Ebay has the best prices for them.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Yamaha-RX-V667-7-2-Channel-Home-Theater-Receiver-/250758791310?pt=Receivers_Tuners&hash=item3a6263808e

 

[GranteedEV]

In regards to Yamaha, I've read a lot about people not liking the way they make certain speakers sound, especially that they make them sound too bright. I'm not sure if the receiver can have THAT much of an effect on the speakers, but I've read several different opinions that said the same thing.

And I don't like persian rugs because they come to life and fly

I'm sure there's some extreme loads that can drive a yamaha receiver into strain, and sometimes that can means an overemphasis of highs depending on the nature of the load.

But within an amplifier's limitations? All amps sound the same.

Next question is auto-EQ. Auto-EQs can sound different simply because they use different alogithms but at the end of the day they normally attempt to flatten out room response. For a person that likes extremely warm, colored sound, the sound of flat can probably sound bright, especially if there's a lot of harmonic distortion in the treble. Further, perhaps Yamaha's auto-EQ doesn't quite work in the time domain so late reflections may lead to a brighter sound in a very reflective room. I couldn't tell you. All I can say is that auto-EQ is something worth experimenting with but it doesn't define a receiver or processor or amp.

Final question is DSP "modes" like "Hall" and "Jazz" etc. Yamaha still offers these and I think they're crazy. Steer clear of those silly modes.

Conclusion: Buy receivers based on how they look and whether their amps are going to drive your speakers well (and you may need to go external if your speakers are a tougher load)

 

[rnatalli]

How would the HK 2600 compare to these two and the Denon that I currently have?

Thanks!

See here:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72046

 

[Melee]

Well, I bought my Factory Refurb Denon AVR-791 for $300 Shipped so it would have to be a better receiver to justify the purchase. I'm not sure how much I can sell it for, but I'm figuring at least $325-$350 w/ free shipping when I look at the prices for them on Ebay and such.

The main question is will the 2011 models of each company be coming out anytime soon to drive down the prices of current models? I don't want to be too hasty and miss on out on a good deal.

The current AVR's that really interest me are: (These are all new.)

Pioneer VSX-1120-K for $499 Shipped
(Excellent Video Processing, Pre-Outs, THX Certification, etc.)

Marantz 5005 for $499 Shipped
(Favorite Receiver Aesthetically, MultEQ, Reported excellent musicality)

Harman Kardon 2600 for $419 Shipped
(Dolby Volume that is supposed to sound much better than Audyssey and other options.)

Brands that I left out:

Denon - I really don't like my 791 much at all. It's user interface any menu's are primitive and horrible to use. It's not enjoyable at all. I can get the slightly older 2310 and 890 for around $350-$375, but I'm not sure if I will like them any better than this one.

Onkyo - They seem to have older chips which result in bad video processing and they reportedly run EXTREMELY hot. They do have MultEQ as well, but I can't justify buying one of the other options or the Denon I already have.

Yamaha - I'm not sure of why but something just tells me to stray away from them for a Receiver. lol I'm sure they're not bad, but they really have nothing to offer that I can't find elsewhere with better additional options or a cheaper price. The only notable uniques compared to the rest is the Pre-Outs and 7.2 ability that it has, both of which I really have no use for. A lot of people don't like YPAO compared to Audyssey and MCACC, also.

Did I leave anything out or am I judging these too harshly?

I would LOVE to get by as cheaply as possible on this. lol If I could find a used or refurb for $200-$250, that would be excellent. However, it would be tough to justify them over my $300 Denon 791 since it does have MultEQ and such.

*EDIT* Nevermind on the HK 2600. They raised the price back up to $499.

 

[HexOmega]

Yamaha - I'm not sure of why but something just tells me to stray away from them for a Receiver. lol I'm sure they're not bad, but they really have nothing to offer that I can't find elsewhere with better additional options or a cheaper price. The only notable uniques compared to the rest is the Pre-Outs and 7.2 ability that it has, both of which I really have no use for. A lot of people don't like YPAO compared to Audyssey and MCACC, also.

Did I leave anything out or am I judging these too harshly?

Well, I'm biased because I own a Yamaha receiver, but it seems to me that you're ruling out the entire brand based on superstition and anecdotal evidence.

The RX-V667 was rated among the best (or in some cases, the best) relative to other receivers at the ~US$500 price point. It has every feature you could possibly need in terms of connectivity and decoding. The amplifier section is quite capable. With respect to others reporting that Yamahas sound "bright", it could be an issue of perception; some reviews state that Yamahas don't overstate the low-end like other brands do.

I honestly think that you could remove the "Yamaha" tag off the front of this receiver and be equally happy with it compared to any of the others mentioned in your post...maybe happier. It's truly one of the few tech/audio items I own that doesn't have a planned upgrade path or timeline.

Note that some manufacturers may not honor the warranty if the receiver is purchased from eBay (or any other unauthorized retailer).

Shameless plug: I happen to like the "Hall in Vienna" DSP mode for classical music. It provides a presence that it reminiscent to live performances recorded in surround sound.

 

[Melee]

Well, I guess it's more accurate to say I don't know enough about the Yamaha's to purchase one. I've looked through comparisons as much as possible, but I'm just not seeing how the Yamaha would be a better choice for me than the Pioneer.

The Marantz can only be found Refurbed for $499 after I rechecked it so that rules it out as I can get the 1120-K brand new for that. The HK was a decent option at $400, but at $500 I will pass. I have no interest in another Denon or Onkyo, honestly.

The only options I have left are:

Pioneer 1120 for $499
Yamaha 667 for $413
Yamaha A700 (It's from their Aventege line but I'm not sure how it compares to the 667...looks similar, though.)

Or, I can just suck it up and keep my Denon 791 if it's not going to make a difference to upgrade. It's definitely a tough choice.

Just looking simply at options, it looks like the Pioneer would be the largest upgrade since it has every feature imaginable, Pre-Outs, networking, iPod Control/Connectivity, THX Certification, the best video processing of all comparable units, and plenty of power.

It really depends on which way I decide to go with everything else. If I don't sell my Receiver then I have $700-$750. That is enough to buy my P363's for $350 and either get the PC351 + P153's to match or get a $400 Sub or 2x $200 Subs. If I can sell my Receiver for around $350, then I have $1050-$1100 which means if I spend $500 on the 1120-K, then I would be able to get the P363's and either the PC351 or P153's.

The main #1 decision above all else is if I'm going to try to complete my 5.0 System first or if I'm going to get my Fronts + Sub(s). That will basically dictate how everything else goes. lol

*** EDIT ***

Is there a ballpark date that manufacturers will start blowing out their current models in order to make room for the new ones? I'm new to receivers so I'm not sure when this happens. I would hate to pay full price for a receiver and in a few weeks it be half price or something.

 

[Melee]

I think I'm all but decided on getting a Pioneer Receiver. I just don't see a downside to it as they have by far the most features, great sound quality, and great video processing.

I am having trouble deciding between the VSX-1020-K and VSX-1120-K.

The only advantages that I see in the 1120 over the 1020 (which don't warrant an extra $200) are:

Marvell Qdeo video processing
PC control
Multichannel PQLS
RS-232 port
THX Certification
30w Extra Power

I'm not really sure what the 3rd and 4th are but I'm guessing they would be of little value to me since I've never seen any mention of them in comparison threads or reviews? Is the PC Control important?

The two that I AM a bit worried about are the difference in Video Processing and the THX Certification. I've read that the 1120 has the superior video processing but how big of a difference will it make if basically all of my video inputs are coming through HDMI anyways? And because of THX, is the 1120 going to sound much better than the 1020?

FINALLY! (lol)

Are there any major drawbacks to these receivers that I have missed? I'm aware that they have MCACC instead of Audyssey which I'm fine with, especially since I probably won't even have a Sub. Anything else?

 

[HexOmega]

I am having trouble deciding between the VSX-1020-K and VSX-1120-K.

The only advantages that I see in the 1120 over the 1020 (which don't warrant an extra $200) are:

Marvell Qdeo video processing
PC control
Multichannel PQLS
RS-232 port
THX Certification
30w Extra Power

I'm not really sure what the 3rd and 4th are but I'm guessing they would be of little value to me since I've never seen any mention of them in comparison threads or reviews? Is the PC Control important?

And because of THX, is the 1120 going to sound much better than the 1020?

Are there any major drawbacks to these receivers that I have missed? I'm aware that they have MCACC instead of Audyssey which I'm fine with, especially since I probably won't even have a Sub. Anything else?

From what I can see, the amplifier section in the 1120 is a substantially upgraded unit compared to the 1020, which weighs fully 6.6 pounds less. That combined with the fact that the 1020 does not have pre-outs to replace the mediocre internal amp would push me towards the 1120.

If you read the amplifier specifications, the difference becomes clear:

Both receivers are capable of "125 watts/channel (1KHz@6ohm)"

However:

The 1020 power output drops by 45 watts when the rating changes from 1KHz@6ohm to full bandwidth @ 8ohm.

The 1120 power output drops by 15 watts when the rating changes from 1KHz@6ohm to full bandwidth @ 8ohm.

As for the video processing, its priority to you depends on what is upstream of the receiver. If you have a DVD/Bluray player with an excellent processor/upscaler, then you don't need to worry as much about the receiver. However, if you have a low-end consumer Bluray player, then your PQ could potentially benefit from the processor in the 1120.

I still vote Yamaha

 

[Melee]

But do I need all that power? lol I mean, it's just going to be running Infinity Primus speakers so it's not responsible for powering $30,000 speakers or anything. hehe

I'm trying to get as nice of a Receiver for as cheap as possible. So far, the 1020-K @ $299 seems to be the leader. For the 1120 I would have to pay $499 and for the Yamaha $414. I'm just not seeing any differences to warrant the extra price, especially since I'm on a tight budget. I could definitely be wrong, though, and it wouldn't be the first time. haha

*** EDIT ***

By the way, can anyone tell me where the easiest place would be to sell my Denon AVR online? Everywhere I've found so far (Audigon, Audioholics, AVS, etc.) all charge like $10 or so total to list it and sell it. I just want to find the place where it will definitely sell and quickly.

How much should I ask for it?