Best Power Conditioner?

mikehummel

mikehummel

Audioholic Intern
I just moved into a house and the landlord told me to expect a lot of surges. He's had both a band new TV and his computer fried by surges in the past two years - both of them on $400 battery backup power supplies.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I need something for the whole entertainment center (TV, Receiver, DVD, etc - 6 outlet minimum) and then something for my computer (6 outlet minimum).

Thanks!

-Mike
 
bandphan

bandphan

Banned
I just moved into a house and the landlord told me to expect a lot of surges. He's had both a band new TV and his computer fried by surges in the past two years - both of them on $400 battery backup power supplies.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I need something for the whole entertainment center (TV, Receiver, DVD, etc - 6 outlet minimum) and then something for my computer (6 outlet minimum).

Thanks!

-Mike
Have him put a unit to protect the whole house(unless the problem isnt from the power company but in the panel and wiring). You could be in for a world of electronic hurt if not.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I just moved into a house and the landlord told me to expect a lot of surges. He's had both a band new TV and his computer fried by surges in the past two years - both of them on $400 battery backup power supplies.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I need something for the whole entertainment center (TV, Receiver, DVD, etc - 6 outlet minimum) and then something for my computer (6 outlet minimum).

Thanks!

-Mike
That's a bunch of BS! Tell him to maintain his property! If the building is up to code and in good condition, it's the power company's issue.

Go outside and look at the connections at the weather head (that's the top of the pipe with the hood, where the cables go down to the meter) and if they have more than one splice each, have the power company come out and replace them with a single splice, explaining that you're experiencing dimming and bright flashes. If the cable on the house side is less than about 12", they'll probably say they can't do it because the cable is too short- that end is usually 18"-24" long in a new service but the end that goes to the meter can be replaced by a qualified electrician AT THE HOMEOWNER'S EXPENSE. He can write it off- if he's too cheap to maintain the house, I can guarantee you have safety, health and environmental issues that need to be addressed. You have specific rights as a renter- don't let any landlord railroad you into settling for less than a clean, healthy place to live.

While you're at it, tell him to have a whole house surge protector installed. If he says it's too expensive, ask him how much his computer cost. A whole house protector can be less than $80 and it installs at the breaker panel. If the house still has fuses, it's not up to code.
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Ninja
All of this is great: unless the damaging surge came in the cable or phone line.
 
mikehummel

mikehummel

Audioholic Intern
Okay - so any suggestions on good whole house surge protection?

If i did get that, do I still need a power conditioner / voltage regulator / surge protector?
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Ninja
You're just itching for old what'shisname to show up, aren't you?:D
We do not speak his name... for he must not be named.

That said: from the power mains is one of several vectors an overvoltage can occur on. I've lost both cable boxes and cable router/gateways (cable modems) without loosing other electronics.
 
W

westom

Audioholic
Okay - so any suggestions on good whole house surge protection?
Plenty. But first lets get the local problem defined. Some nasty and electrically ignorant posts will follow. He will do everything possible to attack me and to confuse you. Only you decide whether you want to learn this stuff or entertain his ignorance.

Now, numerous responsible companies provide 'whole house' protectors. Mostly from names that any 'guy' would be familiar with including Siemens, ABB, Leviton, General Electric, Square D, and Intermatic. A Cutler-Hammer 'whole house' protector sells in Lowes and Home Depot for less than $50.

But no protector does protection. As Dr Kenneth Schneider notes:
> Conceptually, lightning protection devices are switches to ground. Once a threatening surge is
> detected, a lightning protection device grounds the incoming signal connection point of the
> equipment being protected. Thus, redirecting the threatening surge on a path-of-least
> resistance (impedance) to ground where it is absorbed.
> Any lightning protection device must be composed of two "subsystems," a switch which is
> essentially some type of switching circuitry and a good ground connection-to allow
> dissipation of the surge energy.

So first, protection is about where energy dissipates. Second, a protector is only effective when it 'switches' that energy to earth - where energy dissipates. IOW no protector does protection. Either energy connects directly to earth before entering a building (cable TV, satellite dish) - no protector installed. Or a protector makes that earth connection (AC electric, telephone).

All homes already have a 'whole house' protector on the phone line. Required by code. Installed for free by the telco because effective protector costs so little money (compared to ineffective power strip protectors). Cable connects to earth via a wire. The most common source of surges is AC electric.

Wires highest on utility poles are the most often struck. A lightning strike down the street is a direct strike to every household appliance. But everything is not damaged. To have damage, electricity must have both an incoming path and an outgoing path to earth. Most easily damaged are cable TV and telephone appliances. Incoming on AC mains. Outgoing to earth via those always earthed wires. Surge damage because the homeowner let surge energy enter the building on AC mains. Many who never learned this 100+ year old knowledge will assume a surge entered on cable or phone wires.

Once energy is inside, nothing (especially not protectors) can avert that hunt for earth. A TV's HDMI port or a computer's modem are two typically connections from AC electric to earth. In every case, damage because a homeowner permitted that energy to be inside. And because the weakest parts in that electrical connection are the HDMI electronics and a modem's off-hook transistor.

Protection always - did I say the word with enough emphasis - always is about where energy dissipates. Either energy is absorbed harmlessly outside a building - earth ground. Or that energy goes hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Only you make that choice.

A 'whole house' protector is essential. Numerous responsible companies provide them. But it will only do something if connected short to earth ground. Again, Dr Schneider. The connection to earth must be low impedance. To be effective, a protector must connect short ('less than 10 feet') to earth ground with no sharp wire bends, separated from other non-grounding wires, not inside metallic conduit, and all protectors connect to the same 'single point' earth ground.

Where does energy dissipate? Earth ground. What must all protector connect single digit feet to? Same earth ground. What is the only component always required in every protection 'system'? Single point earth ground. Any money wasted on plug-in protectors was always better spent on upgrading the single point earth ground.

See that telco NID box containing a protector? Follow its ground wire. How long? No sharp bends? What earth ground does it connect to?

Where does the cable TV wire connect to earth?

See that bare solid copper wire from the breaker box? Same questions. Does wire go up over the foundation and down to earth ground? Then it is too long - no effective protection. Sharp wire bends and excessive wire removed by going through the foundation and directly to single point earth ground. Yes, wire distance to earth is that critical.

If this is new, expect to read it at least three times. Also expect to unlearn many popular myths and lies. And have plenty of questions. Meanwhile, visit Lowes to view a ‘whole house’ protector, 6 AWG solid copper ground wire, and ten foot copper clad ground rods. All necessary for effective surge protection. Anything inside the house, well, even the manufacturer does not claim effective protection in his numeric specs.
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Ninja
A quick search and you'll find our resident troll above getting thoroughly debunked. I'll not bother to repeat it yet again. I'll just pick on one random element I've not picked on in the past.

Westom's assertion that surges are never re-directed post house entry (which of course ignores the problem of induction from near misses), means that the idea of a ground line in an outlet (which every outlet has had for decades by code) is entirely bogus.
 
mikehummel

mikehummel

Audioholic Intern
Wow - **** is really flying here. I didn't think I'd get such passionate responses just asking about surges and brown outs.

A friend suggested this unit might be good for the surges. Has anyone had any experience with them or could offer others. I love the advice - but suggestions on gear itself would also be super helpful. :D


Monster HDP 1800 : http://www.amazon.com/Monster-HDP-1800-8-Outlet-Center/dp/B001CBPWT0
 
bandphan

bandphan

Banned
That doesn't deal with the problem. You need to know what's causing them and who is responsible, the utlity company or homeowner. You need protection prior to it getting in the home and it shouldn't be your responsibility. Units like the one you linked are more of a piece of mind purchase. Try collecting on a claim and they will have the home checked and upon finding fault that should have been addressed, you get nothing.
 
mikehummel

mikehummel

Audioholic Intern
Okay - Can anyone suggest an whole home unit. I did some research and other then smarthome, I'd like some other suggestions.
 
mikehummel

mikehummel

Audioholic Intern
BTW - I'll be checking with my electric company - and while some companies do offer a meter surge protector for a minimal amount per month, mine doesn't seem to...
 
W

westom

Audioholic
A friend suggested this unit might be good for the surges. Has anyone had any experience with them or could offer others.
Monster has a long history of identifying scams. Then selling same at even high prices. For example, so many recommended Monster connectors because they were colored gold. At audio frequencies, a tin or gold connector is irrelevant.

Monster sold speaker wire marked for the speaker and the amp end. Monster claimed sound was perverted if that wire was reversed. Then sold $7 speaker wire for $70. Worse are the so many who claimed they could hear the difference when wire was reversed.

A $3 power strip with some ten cent protector parts sells in the grocery store for $7. A similar circuit is sold by Monster for $65 or $150.

Or you view the manufacturer numeric specifications. Where are numbers that claim protection from each type of surge? If in doubt, post numbers that define each protection mode.

Easy to identify ineffective (high profit) protectors. 1) It has no dedicated wire for the always required short connection to earth (where hundreds of thousands of joules get absorbed). 2) Manufacturer will avoid all discussion about earth ground. Monster meets both.


So how does that Monster stop what three miles of sky could not? Either it stops that surge. Or makes energy magically disappear. Which one does its numeric specification claim? Monster has a long history of identifying scams. Then selling same for even higher profits.

Listed were responsible manufacturers.
 
W

westom

Audioholic
BTW - I'll be checking with my electric company
Listed earlier (at the start of that post) were responsible sources for 'whole house' protectors. Lowes and Home Depot sell one for less than $50.

A protector must always have that dedicated wire for the short connection to earth. A minimally sized protector starts at about 50,000 amps. Do not view model numbers. Always view the specs. Critical is that 50,000 amps.

Of course, that is only a connecting device. You are asking about protection. That means earthing must both meet and exceed post 1990 National Electrical code requirements. That means every wire inside every cable must connect short to that ground either directly (cable TV, satellite dish) or via a protector (telephone, AC electric). Your most important questions should be about the only item that actually does the protection - single point earth ground. Protection is not found inside the box. Protection has always been about where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate.
 
dapack69

dapack69

Senior Audioholic
I don't have a monster, but I do have a Panamax which bascically does or doesn't do what it says.

Main reason I got one is I can moniter the number of volts since I have to use a transformer. It also has 10 connectors on the back to plug all my gear into and keep everything nice and neat.
 
bandphan

bandphan

Banned
I don't have a monster, but I do have a Panamax which bascically does or doesn't do what it says.

Main reason I got one is I can moniter the number of volts since I have to use a transformer. It also has 10 connectors on the back to plug all my gear into and keep everything nice and neat.
The is nothing wrong with have a "power center" they are very convenient and some provide a benefit :)

As for home products, here are some by 1 manufacture and there are many :)
http://www.aplussupply.com/intermatic/ig1240.htm
 
dapack69

dapack69

Senior Audioholic
I'm sure that there is some benifit to power conditioners other then not having all the outlets on the floor. I just bought mine for a light show.
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Ninja
Westom will hate it because... well, cause he hates almost everything.
AH in general has a distaste for Monster products.

I'd guess that it's a decent strip-style protector at a very inflated price. That would be the norm for a monster product.
 
W

westom

Audioholic
Main reason I got one is I can moniter the number of volts since I have to use a transformer.
I do the same by viewing incandescent light bulbs. Ideal voltage for all electronics is when incandescent bulbs dim to even 50% intensity. How often do your light bulbs dim that much? If bulbs do (if voltage drops that low) then do not cure symptoms with a line conditioner. Call an electrician ASAP because a potentially major house wiring problem exists.

Utilities maintain voltages so that light bulbs do not change intensity. Why? Because voltage variations are harmful to motorized appliances - refrigerator, washer, furnace, etc. Either voltage is tightly maintained or is removed. Voltages so low as to be harmful to motorized appliances are perfectly ideal to all electronics.

What does a line conditioner do? Read its spec numbers. Many are nothing more than power strip protectors inside a more expensive box. A profit center sold to those who do not read numbers - who all but want to be scammed.

What must you really protect from? A serious threat to appliances - especially those connected to earth ground via telephone and AC electric - is a massive current. The most commonly known version is called lightning. Current so fast that 300 consecutive surges could pass through that circuit breaker or fuse. And that CB / fuse will not even trip / blow. Again numbers that others never learned - who foolishly think a CB or fuse will do hardware protection. Only effective protection from typically destructive anomalies is earthing via one 'whole house' protector.

Destructive anomalies are serious energy. Either that energy dissipates harmlessly outside the building. Or nothing stops that energy from hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Where does that line conditioner discuss hundreds of thousands of joules? Read its numbers. Nothing inside a building will avert that hunt. Informed homeowners 'always' properly earth one 'whole house' protector. There is no other proven solution. Informed homeowners learn from over 100 years of well proven science. A solution is only as effective as its earth ground. Where is that always required short earthing wire from that line conditioner? Low voltage is another myth promoted where ever consumers do not always demand the numbers.

If you are having low voltages, then the line conditioner must power refrigerators and air conditioners. Or you address a human safety threat - call an electrician.
 
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