Best Buy Guy... High Definition Sound...an honest reply.

Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
The recording industry did themselves in by the loudness wars. When it comes to new releases, I will choose vinyl over CD except for classical and jazz genres which I will stick with CD
So we are clear, my argument is not that the music selection offered by vinyl is not of better quality as the market currently stands. My argument is that the industry COULD but won't offer the best quality possible on CD despite it's inherent superiority as a format. It's an industry decision that we are forced to just have to deal with because of the ignorance of the average consumer (ignorance the industry caused through a series of pointless formats and low fidelity portable music devices). They made their bed and now they are trying to find the cool spot on the pillow by offering a half measure that appeals to the hipsters.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
In terms of educating your customers at Best Buy, I would tell them that there are higher resolution audio formats, but whether people can actually hear a significant improvement is another matter. The salient thing is the recording itself, not the audio format. An awesome MP3 recording will sound better than a bad recording in high resolution audio format.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
 
C

crp762

Audiophyte
...How hard would it really be to add something like this? Currently there is no way of knowing if a particular album is going to sound good or not unless you have prior knowledge of it. Remember "digitally remastered" CDs?
Ah, have you looked at http://dr.loudness-war.info/? I just found this recently and plan on checking my pending music purchases against it to see what the dynamic range is for various formats of a particular recording.

crp
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
So we are clear, my argument is not that the music selection offered by vinyl is not of better quality as the market currently stands. My argument is that the industry COULD but won't offer the best quality possible on CD despite it's inherent superiority as a format. It's an industry decision that we are forced to just have to deal with because of the ignorance of the average consumer (ignorance the industry caused through a series of pointless formats and low fidelity portable music devices). They made their bed and now they are trying to find the cool spot on the pillow by offering a half measure that appeals to the hipsters.
We've been saying the same thing.
 
L

Latent

Full Audioholic
Yes, it's true the redbook CD standard mostly covers the audible range of human hearing. HD sound does your ears no favors, in fact, it could bring a type of distortion into the audible range which isn't normally heard and make the sound worse. How you educate your consumers? Hahaha. There is no educating them, they will come in and ask for HD sound devices, and when you tell them that it will not improve the sound, they will ask "Then why do these companies sell HD Audio stuff?" and they will think you don't know what you are talking about. They have their preconceptions, and they will not be budged on that. Just give them what they think they want, because anything else will not be doing yourself a favor, and stupid people deserve to be separated from their money. If you want to learn more, here is the science behind the argument, and here is that science distilled into an easier to read article.
Interesting articles. Wouldn't be nice if one of the AVR makers actualky listened to the scientigic consensos and grew some b#$ls and offered a high quality digital sound processing mode that converts all the 96/192khz sources to 44/48k so all processing and output Is done at this frequency to improve the sound. An avr designer could improve quality and decrease costs if they only offered this option when in digital mode as dsp and processing is easier.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Interesting articles. Wouldn't be nice if one of the AVR makers actualky listened to the scientigic consensos ...
If AVR makers listened to scientific consensus, they would go broke. BS sells.
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic Field Marshall
That's pretty cold. I think we should attempt to educate stupid people... assuming we're not them. But if they refuse, they don't "deserve" our perseverance.
I'm a salesman. I greet customers everyday who, simply put, do not know how to think critically. Some have not learned to use their brains; and, others just don't have the mental capacity to think critically. These folks are sometimes hard to please. What I mean by that is in attempting to help them they may become conscious of their ignorance of stupidity and be embarrassed. This is bad as a customer who senses he is being looked down upon is likely to shop somewhere else. When I see a customer who appears to have any sort of issues with self esteem, I go out of my way to praise the customer for anything praise can legitimately by rendered. In other words, they may be stupid but I don't need to treat them that way.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I have to admit to being guilty of piling on the hype before CDs became available since I had seen and heard the Sony prototypes at two consecutive CES shows, with their CDs. I don't remember the music as much as the lack of noise and at the time, I was tired of noise. The first 25 CDs that were available were of mixed quality but I will say that Sketches of Spain and the Classical titles were very good, as were some of the others. There's no sense in picking crappy-sounding CDs to kick off a new product that had been delayed for two years and the number of initial releases was lower than expected. That said, the record industry screwed the pooch by not making sure the next releases were of the highest quality and many of them definitely fell short of what they should have been. That immediately alienated some people, caused others to wait until the players came down in price (the first model in the US, the Sony CDP-101 listed at $900). The second model was $600 and in two years, they were less than $300. The CDs SPARS code on didn't start showing DDD until '84, with Brothers In Arms, by Dire Straits. I don't know of many who think that was a bad-sounding album OR CD but by the time they got it close to "right", the initial buyers were older and didn't have the same passion for music or audio they had when they were younger. The people who adopted MP3 music are mostly the children of the first CD buyers and they usually didn't listen to music in the same way- kids are the music lovers, their parents usually hate the kids' music and by the time the kids are out of the house, the parents don't care as much, have lost enough of their hearing acuity that the differences don't really matter and they aren't spending a lot of money on audio gear unless they have a butt-load of cash, want to make it a statement or are very different from the rest.

Record companies want to make money and that's very evident in light of all of the musicians/band they screwed. They created the monster of bands and artists making mega-millions and their "need" for money was fueled by their wild spending. Well, all of the blow that was used in the '70s and '80s helped, for sure.

This all could have been avoided the record companies COULD have decided that sound quality should come in as the #2 thing they produced, with music quality being #1. The recording engineers, mastering experts/mixers, producers and others COULD have stood up to the record companies when they were told to ship sub-par tapes for mix-down and masters but when they stood the chance of losing work, they'd go along to get along. Some of the names on album jackets under "Mastered By:" and "Recording Engineer" are well known to those who used to read the liner notes like it was a favorite book and some of them are still doing this. Bernie Grundman is one, Bob Ludwig is another and they left their mark on thousands of albums because they knew how to produce great results.

FWIW, and knowing that CDs CAN sound better than vinyl and many other formats, I found an album that I had been looking for since I borrowed a copy from my guitar teacher in the late-70s. I listened to it and marveled at the sound quality, even though it needs to be cleaned. It has a few clicks but really, no pops, no major scratches and it was shiny & black, rather than dark gray. I normally don't buy used and I NEVER loan my albums because I don't want them coming back in worse condition than when they left but I bought this one anyway, because of the music. The one I had borrowed wasn't in good condition and I didn't have a stereo that was anywhere near what I have now, so I had no idea that it could sound as good as this one does. A few days later, I saw a YouTube video with Bernie Grundman and that made me wonder who did the album I had bought and found that he had mastered it. That's when I saw that it was released in 1966.
 
KenM10759

KenM10759

Audioholic Ninja
I'm also in sales (not audio) and have learned a LOT through Fox, Mercury, Dale Carnegie and internally developed methods, philosophies and self-evaluation. It's surprising how successful one can be simply by doing more listening to the customer than preaching, yet the single most important aspect is that I know the products I sell, know my competitors well, and never make disparaging comments about those competitors. The customer may have some that work well in their application and it does me no good to tell the customer what they have sucks.

I instead extoll the features and benefits of the products I offer, and show my dedication to supporting them. In a BB salesperson, broad product knowledge should help address the customer needs and wants that they have expressed and you, the salesperson, listened closely to identify. Expressing the support of BB in return policies, manufacturer warranty and support structure, and decidedly NOT pushing a particular brand that is counter to the customer goal would all help secure a sale.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I'm also in sales (not audio) and have learned a LOT through Fox, Mercury, Dale Carnegie and internally developed methods, philosophies and self-evaluation. It's surprising how successful one can be simply by doing more listening to the customer than preaching, yet the single most important aspect is that I know the products I sell, know my competitors well, and never make disparaging comments about those competitors. The customer may have some that work well in their application and it does me no good to tell the customer what they have sucks.

I instead extoll the features and benefits of the products I offer, and show my dedication to supporting them. In a BB salesperson, broad product knowledge should help address the customer needs and wants that they have expressed and you, the salesperson, listened closely to identify. Expressing the support of BB in return policies, manufacturer warranty and support structure, and decidedly NOT pushing a particular brand that is counter to the customer goal would all help secure a sale.
It could, if BB and other places would train their sales staff better. When I go to the store closest to my house, I often see people in the sales department standing behind the counter, but they're often slow to acknowledge people when they enter the area and it's not only when that person is me. I have asked questions that would have been easy enough to answer if they knew it, but they had no idea. I was taught that "I don't know" isn't an acceptable answer and that "I don't know but I'll find out" is much better. If there was no way to find the answer immediately, we would get the person's contact info and make a note for what they needed and most important- we would follow up and call back. Disparagement of products and the competition was off limits and we didn't cop and attitude when someone would state an objection but if another dealer lied about us, we called them immediately and set them straight, usually through their manager getting an earful- direct, but in a civil manner. Then, price became the main reason for making the purchase and offering service, a better selection, better-trained sales people and knowing how to treat customers well were replaced by people who could sell, but only because they constantly pestered the customer for their money and by heaping more free stuff onto the purchase or dropping the price to a point that guaranteed the store's failure. These new sales people were rude, uninformed, would argue with customers and if they screwed up, they just shrugged it off.

People in big box audio departments rarely take the initiative to learn as much as you or I have, through company-led/mandated training or on our own and who can blame them? They sell a little, they make a certain amount of money and if they sell their butts off, they make the same amount. If the manager notices them and wants to keep them, they might get a bit more but they haven't paid commission in quite a while, AFAIK.
 
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