Benefits to Bi Amping or Bi Wiring

braminator

braminator

Junior Audioholic
Anyone have 1st hand knowledge or opinions on doing this?
 
zildjian

zildjian

Audioholic Chief
Biamping and biwiring are two completely different things, and subject to much debate when you consider biwiring.

Biamping, yes there can be substancial benefit to biamping if done properly. You have to ensure that the levels are matched between the 2 amplifiers. In other words, if you use a much larger amp to run your mid woofers and a smaller amp to run your tweeters, there can be a level difference during playback where your tweeters are too quiet (of course, they aren't getting as much power). It's suggested to use identical amps when biamping, or at least close enough to compliment each other. A notable exception to this 'rule' is using a tube amp to run the high & mid frequency drivers and a solid state amp to run the low frequency drivers; that can be a pretty nice set up as you combine the low frequency power of solid state transistor amps (tube amps don't handle low frequencies quite as well as SS) with the silkiness of a tube amp for the high & mid frequencies.

Next with biamping is the type of crossover used: active vs. passive.
An active crossover splits the signal before it gets to the amplifier. In other words, it splits the signal into a high frequency signal and a low frequency signal, each of which can then be directed to their appropriate amplifier. This provides a more efficient means of amplification for each signal path as the amp driving the low frequency drivers only amplifies the low frequencies in the signal as that's all their input signal contains...
With a passive crossover (such as a crossover built into your speakers for example, with multiple binding posts on the back of your speaker labeled high & low), a full range signal (both highs and lows) is sent to both amplifiers. Each amplifier then has to amplify that whole frequency band and send it to the to the corresponding binding posts, where the internal crossover passively eliminates the unwanted frequencies and allows pass only the highs for the tweeters, and lows for the woofers. In this set up, you'll still be able to deliver more power to your speakers than if you used just one of the amps, but each amp is still working to amplifier the entire signal, so again it's not as efficient as the active crossover method described above.

Biwiring: this may just start a debate! Honestly, I have not heard a difference in biwiring. As long as the resistance is low enough in your speakers cables when you single wire your speakers, I wouldn't worry about biwiring unless you just want to experiment with it. That being said, if you do want to try it, nothing anybody can say on this forum should stop you. Just don't go buy overpriced speaker cable to try it! Again, I haven't ever noticed a difference, and I don't currently biwire my speakers; maybe I would if I still had a surplus of speaker cable, but I'm not rushing out to buy more to do so. Long story short, anybody would be hard pressed to prove if biwiring makes a difference vs. using a single run of low resistance cable.
Brad
 
jcPanny

jcPanny

Audioholic Ninja
Biamping

I would agree with the above assessment of biwiring, no benfit aside from increasing the wire gauge.

You might also consider a single high wattage amp channel for the Highs and Lows of each speaker. This will have most or all of the benefits of PASSIVE biamping and you won't need additional cables.

I would also discourage use of the biamping feature on Denon, Yamaha, and other mid range receivers. The receiver amps are not rated for all channels driven so instead of delivering 80-100 Watts into 2 front channels, you get 40-50 Watts into 4 channels for the highs and lows of the front.
 
braminator

braminator

Junior Audioholic
I wanted to bi amp the front speakers with my new Pioneer Eltie 56txi. According to Pioneer this is no problem and is a feature of the unit.
 
AVRat

AVRat

Audioholic Ninja
braminator said:
I wanted to bi amp the front speakers with my new Pioneer Eltie 56txi. According to Pioneer this is no problem and is a feature of the unit.
jcPanny said:
I would also discourage use of the biamping feature on Denon, Yamaha, and other mid range receivers. The receiver amps are not rated for all channels driven so instead of delivering 80-100 Watts into 2 front channels, you get 40-50 Watts into 4 channels for the highs and lows of the front.
Not knowing all the speakers specs, you could actually diminish the SQ of the speaker. Just because a speaker or receiver is built with the capability, doesn't mean it works for all situations.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Biamping off a receiver, which means each channel is still being powered by the same power supply, will not yeild a night and day difference. I doubt it will even offer a noticable difference.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
I would also discourage use of the biamping feature on Denon, Yamaha, and other mid range receivers. The receiver amps are not rated for all channels driven so instead of delivering 80-100 Watts into 2 front channels, you get 40-50 Watts into 4 channels for the highs and lows of the front.
This is a bogus statement. It would only be true if you were running continuous sine wave test tones into a resistive load for all channels at the same time and then it would only be true for the lower end Yamaha and Denon models whose power supplies cannot deliver all of the power from the wall.

The truth is the mid/high portion of a speaker dissipates very little power, especially the tweeter so in reality 1/5 the power will goto the top portion of the speaker and the bulk of it will be consumed by the woofer. By biamping the receiver, you can yield better control of the bass portion of the speaker since it has a dedicated amp to just run that.

It doesn't hurt to try both ways to see which you prefer. I have first hand experience biamping the Denon AVR-5803 with a pair of RBH 1266-LSE's and can tell you it sounded better biamped than running just one amp to each speaker. The bass control and definition was improved.

I would agree with the above assessment of biwiring, no benfit aside from increasing the wire gauge.
Actually this is also incorrect. Biwiring 2 identical cables (say 12AWG) will reduce the effective gauge to 9AWG but will double the pair to pair capacitance. You're better off just running a single quality 10AWG speaker cable. There are no real benefits to biwiring.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
These are the speakers I will be hooking upto the Pioneer Elite 56txi. According to the specs it has 2 main capacitors feature a 27,000uf capacity
and a 15lb power supply.

http://www.mordauntshort.com/summary...&Title=Summary

As you see the speakers are 8ohm with built in powered subs.
Don't waste an amp on just a tweeter. Run the top mid/tweet portion off your receiver and use the internal amp for the side firing woofers.

Save the extra 2 amps in your receiver for the EX channels. If you aren't taking advantage of PLIIx, you should be!
 
braminator

braminator

Junior Audioholic
Ok thanks. I was just getting ready to by new speaker cables to bi amp. But if it is a waste, then I won't need to spend the extra money on the cable.
 
gmichael

gmichael

Audioholic Spartan
If you don't have the room to add 2 more speakers for 7.1, I bet they would sound great out in your garage. Hmmmm... Think how much better your trips out there would be. All you need is one more speaker now.
 
braminator

braminator

Junior Audioholic
Great idea. Now come over and help me wire and hook up everything.:D
 
jcPanny

jcPanny

Audioholic Ninja
Denon 5803

The Denon 5803 and 5805 are flagship receivers. The 5805 is THX Ultra 2 and rated for all channels driven. This is obviously not representative of most low-midfi receivers including the one in question.
 
braminator

braminator

Junior Audioholic
Well I will do a test on running them both ways to see what I hear. I will post results of my opinion sometime next week.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
The 5805 is THX Ultra 2 and rated for all channels driven. This is obviously not representative of most low-midfi receivers including the one in question.
Wrong again. If the 5805 was rated 170wpc all 10 channels driven, it would try to consume roughly 170*10/.4 = 4,250 watts or pull 35A from 120V line. NOT BLOODY LIKELY :D
 
braminator

braminator

Junior Audioholic
The Denon 5805 according to the specs pushes 170 x 10 channels simutansly.
It has 6 seperate power supplies and consumes 13amps. It weights 92lbs
So it might be possible.

My pioneer states 110 x 7. Though there was a test by a magazine that got results of 100 x7 which sounds accurate based off max power consumption of 600watts. It weighs 45lbs.

So IMO I think the Denon is able to do what it said.
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
gene said:
Wrong again. If the 5805 was rated 170wpc all 10 channels driven, it would try to consume roughly 170*10/.4 = 4,250 watts or pull 35A from 120V line. NOT BLOODY LIKELY :D
.....Gene, a question....the house I am in was built in about 1958....two story style built into a short hillside with one level showing to the front, and two levels showing to the back as we've gone downhill somewhat to a relatively flat backyard....1500 sq ft heated and cooled both stories for total of 3000....the lower level is governed by two breakers in the breaker-box upstairs....one is a 40 amp breaker, and the other is 30....how many watts could be counted on from each breaker to arrive at the 120 wall outlets going on to a heavy-duty power strip to be used by amplifiers?.....the wire from the breaker box to all the wall outlets is that big stuff about 1/2 inch diameter.....I may not have set this up and asked it correctly.....
 

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