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merlin1952

Audioholic Intern
[/COLOR]I have a roll of Belden 9258 RG-8/X Type 50 ohm Coax thatI am trying to use for CATV and antenna connections (it was given to me). Iwasn’t aware that this coax was different than the regular stuff used by thelocal cable company until I had already buried two runs of it out to myworkshop. Can anyone give advice and/or recommendations concerning this stuff?First off, though the male RG-59 connectors will fit the cable and properlycrimp, the braided copper conductor will NOT fit into the common femaleconnectors used for voltage protection or into any other devices. This stuffappears to be a totally different animal than what I’ve worked with before andI’m at a loss on how to make this stuff work which I really need to do being asit is already buried. Any assistance will be greatly appreciated. Thanks,
 
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KurtBJC

Audioholic
You don't want to use that. It's a 50 ohm coax, which (together with the fact that it's RG-8, which is huge) is why the center conductor is so big compared to an RG-59. How long are the runs you've buried? This stuff will definitely cause impedance mismatch issues, but if the runs are very short you might get away with it. If it's digital cable, though, I wouldn't bet on it.

I don't think you'll have any luck with F-connectors--but if you want to get this to mate with a female F, you're probably going to have to trim the center conductor down considerably. It's stranded, so you can do that, but then you'll have to be careful mounting that so that it doesn't go more than one direction.

Your ideal scenario, if you wanted to use the buried runs, would be to come up with an inline 50/75 ohm impedance transformer. I don't know if anyone sells 'em but someone might.

Kurt
Blue Jeans Cable
 
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merlin1952

Audioholic Intern
[/COLOR]Kurt, thanks so much for the reply though I’ll admit it isn’texactly what I was hoping for but that isn’tyour fault. As I said I was given the cable and buried it without noticing thatit wasn’t the typical TV coax. The 2 buried runs are well over a 100 feet each.As for the antenna connection I’m now thinking that I might be money ahead tojust place an antenna on top of the shop and be done with it. For now all I’mreally looking for in my shop is radio but eventually my plans are to build a “mancave” up stairs and then I’ll definitely want CATV. However, if I could make that buried cablework I’d search for a way to convert the connections on each end over to thestandard CATV connections and get the standard coax for my inside wiring.
 
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KurtBJC

Audioholic
Sorry I couldn't be more encouraging. At 100 feet plus, I would predict huge problems with signal integrity here. The only way out would be impedance transformers--if you do a little bit of Googling you'll find that there are 50/75 ohm units available, but I haven't dug down to see what the pricing is like.

Alternatively, a fellow with a couple of toroid cores could probably wind his own impedance transformer for this--but I've forgotten almost everything I once knew about transformer winding, so I can't quite give you a set of DIY instructions on that. It easily could wind up being more of a hassle than simply starting over with new cable. I also suspect that if I were a bit cleverer, I could think of some weird way to modify some CATV splitters to do what you want--they're basically multi-tap 1:1 impedance transformers. Someone somewhere may have a writeup on this.
 
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merlin1952

Audioholic Intern
[/COLOR]Kurt, thanks so much for your input. I’ve been searching andhave found the connectors I linked below. Even if I just bought enough for onecable for the CATV that would be over $80.00 just for the 2 connectors and I don’treally know if that would solve my problem or not. Maybe I’m just wishfulthinking but I can’t help but feel that there is a simple solution out theresomewhere, other than replacing the cable itself which is what I may end up doing.The current cables where placed while I had a rented trencher, for the powercable, so they are nice and deep and the grass has already covered the oldtrench so I really don’t want to do the replacement thing. However, that’s whathappens sometimes when we don’t check things well enough before we begin aproject. I will keep searching for an acceptable solution but would appreciateyour opinion on the linked too connectors and/or any other solutions you mightthink of, Thanks.
<o:p> </o:p>
http://www.alanindustries-store.com/product_p/75z50%20n.htm
http://www.alanindustries-store.com/product_p/50z75%20n.htm
<o:p> </o:p>
 
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KurtBJC

Audioholic
I'm pretty sure those are wrong. They are not impedance transformers but "matching pads." That sounds like the same thing but it's not. What these do, if I'm not mistaken, is add resistance to change a load impedance -- that is, if you've got a 75 ohm source and you want to drive a 50 ohm load, you put one of these in line. The problem is that you don't want to change a load impedance--you want to alter the characteristic impedance of the line, and a line isn't like a load. Load impedance is about the characteristics of the circuit being driven by the signal; characteristic impedance of a transmission line is a matter of matching the effects of inductance and capacitance to the load impedance so that there isn't a lot of return loss along the way from the source to the load. I don't know how clear that is -- what I am trying to say is that adding 25 ohms resistance to a 50 ohm coax doesn't alter the line impedance, but only the load impedance, and that does you no good. Additionally, you'll see (and this is related to what I'm saying above) that the insertion loss on these is immense-- 5.7 dB. What you want is an impedance transformer, which will have nothing but a core and windings inside, no attenuator.

Now, you may find, in ham radio sources and such-like, some transformer designs that are nothing but lengths of tuned coax--that won't work because you're handling a very, very broad band of frequencies so you cannot use a tuned transformer, which will only work within the narrow band for which it is tuned. You need a proper transformer, which is probably going to be not much more than a toroidal core with a few windings of wire around it. This is the sort of thing:

Impedance Matching Transformers from JFW Industries

Note, among other things, that it is a "transformer" rather than a "pad" and that the insertion loss is under a dB. But I have no idea of pricing or where you'd buy--you might need to go to a big electronic parts dealer like Mouser for these. Also, I note that on at least the one I looked at, the "stop frequency" is 600 MHz so I'm not sure how high up these are guaranteed to work (though most CATV stuff is so badly made, and these are probably much nicer, so that even when these work badly they may work quite well for CATV).

I hope this helps. I'm not sure what the cost of this sort of thing is likely to be, but there certainly is some argument, given the difficulty of replacement, for giving it a try.

Kurt
Blue Jeans Cable

P.S. Edit: Now that I look again, I see that I missed the fact that some of these go up to 2.2 GHz. You probably don't need that, but 1 GHz or 1.2 might be advisable in a digital cable system.
 
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merlin1952

Audioholic Intern
FYI, I did get my receiver connected to my antenna using the RG-8 cable and it seems to work okay. I know we’re talking FM radio and not HDTV but the receiver appears to tune in an sound about as well as the one inside my house.
 
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