BEHRINGER Reference Amplifier A500

[Sarius]

Hi,

I found this amp sold in a number of different places for about $180. I can't find any specs on it, but was wondering how it might do in an home audio system. It seems to put out about 160 watts per channel into 8 ohms. It's 'professional' gear and seems to be aimed at studio use.

Now with 'audiophile' amps in this ranges going from a few grand up to 20 grand+, one really wonders why 'pros' are settling for a mere under $200 one and what the trade offs are.

Anyone investigated this? Thanks

edit: I was able to find specs on this and the Parasound A21 Amp at over 10 times the price. It does seem that when similiar specs were quotes they were very comparable. It does make me wonder.....

 

[mtrycrafts]

Hi,

I found this amp sold in a number of different places for about $180. I can't find any specs on it, but was wondering how it might do in an home audio system. It seems to put out about 160 watts per channel into 8 ohms. It's 'professional' gear and seems to be aimed at studio use.

Now with 'audiophile' amps in this ranges going from a few grand up to 20 grand+, one really wonders why 'pros' are settling for a mere under $200 one and what the trade offs are.

Anyone investigated this? Thanks

edit: I was able to find specs on this and the Parasound A21 Amp at over 10 times the price. It does seem that when similiar specs were quotes they were very comparable. It does make me wonder.....

There was an extensive post on this a while back. Here ya go

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17004&highlight=behringer+a500

 

[mike c]

I took a closer look at this unit (a500) in store and decided that it was indeed worth how cheap it is (based on looks quality)

performance wise, it looks to be an 'expensive amp' killer for those with a budget. at the very least it can take a lot of load off your receiver.

when one day I have bought all I need for my HT, I might buy one just to play with it.

 

[Sarius]

There was an extensive post on this a while back. Here ya go

Thanks!!! My speakers are bi-amp-able and my integrated amp is setup for bi-amping with a preout that is active while the main amp is (Roksan Kandy III). I've been wanting to play with bi-amping to see, but have been reluctant to pay a grand or more just to experiment. This might be just the ticket.

One question, given that most power amps don't have gain controls, how would I set them to match the Roksan? My plan is to use the Kandy to drive the mids and tweeters and this one for the woofers. I did download the manual and it was silent on this issue.

 

[mike c]

http://www.kandyline.co.uk/spec_amp.html

its gonna be hard to balance the highs to the lows especially using two different amps. why dont you try the a500 by itself first, see if it's an improvement over your roksan.

 

[Ben Diss]

I bought two to use as monoblocks. On both units that I tested there was audible distortion in the high frequencies. Fortunately, I bought them from Parts Express so I was able to return them. If you do want to try them, I'd recommend that you do the same.

-Ben

 

[WmAx]

I bought two to use as monoblocks. On both units that I tested there was audible distortion in the high frequencies. Fortunately, I bought them from Parts Express so I was able to return them. If you do want to try them, I'd recommend that you do the same.

-Ben

That is the 1st I have ever heard of such a complaint, and no such behaviour is evident in the available 3rd party measurements. Seems the chances of 2 units being defective at the same time would be very unlikely, but I suppose that is possible. Assuming that everything was set up correctly, one possible answer is that the very low input impedance of the A500 (which is fine for most line level signal sources) caused the distortion due to an incompatibility with the interfacing circuits (input line of A500 trying to draw too much current from the source). Besides these two possible(yet both extremely unlikely) circumstances, I don't know what could cause such an audible distortion with this product if it was operating properly.

-Chris

 

[Sarius]

http://www.kandyline.co.uk/spec_amp.html

its gonna be hard to balance the highs to the lows especially using two different amps. why dont you try the a500 by itself first, see if it's an improvement over your roksan.

Thanks, I don't think that high/low balance would be a problem as I'm going to use this only in a bi-amp setup where it'll be driving the woofers only, so how it performs above..oh... 250 hz or so will not be a factor. The Roksan has about the same output- 120 watts into 8 ohms as the A500, so just swapping one for the other wouldn't be any improvement..... unless, of course, I'm missing the point of bi-amping.

In terms of the output, thinking more about it, the adjustable gains might be a plus. I've got a SPL meter and test disks with 1/3 octave pink noise, so I suppose that I could use that to balance the SPL's between the two- something that I couldn't do with a straight gain amp like the Parasound Halo A21 I had been considering.

 

[zildjian]

Sarius,
Even though one amp will be driving the woofers and the other the mid/high drivers, it still is important to have either identical amplifiers doing each or if different types of amps are mixed, having the gains matched exactly. Otherwise, obviously the highs & lows will not be balanced. Another draw back of using two different amps is even if you match the gains at a certain volume, if you turn up the volume on your preamp, the amount one amp increases the sound relative to the other amp may be different at higher or lower volumes than the volume at which you did your gain matching. Powering your mains using just the Behringer may indeed provide better power delivery to your mains even though the receiver your using has the same 120x2 quoted power rating for the mains. The external amp may provide better headroom and a truer 120x2. I'd consider this set up first before mixing the two amps powering the same speakers in the biamp set up; just see how it sounds to you.

My only other hesitation to using the Behringer is that since it is such an inexpensive amp, I'd consider what speakers I connected it to. Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not looking down my nose at the Behringer product as I've not used it, but I've got $6K worth of speakers in my home theater, and I wouldn't consider hooking an economy level amp to them as I don't want to limit the quality of the sound from very nice speakers by using a cheap amp, and I'd consider the risk to damaging the speakers by using what could potentially be a cheaply made amplifier. At that price point, the output transistors, driver boards, and for the safety of the speakers the DC blocking capacitors just aren't going to be of the quality of the other amps mention on this forum (Parasound, Rotel, Outlaw, Emotive) that are yes, more expensive, but relative to speakers you use, may be more appropriate if the speakers are of a higher quality than the speakers found at say Circuit City or Best Buy. If a cheap amp has a bad day and fails, hopefully it will just blow a fuse before it damages a speaker driver! I'm not saying that you ALWAYS get a better product by spending more money, of course that's not always the case else it would be simple to compare products, but I would just make sure that the amp quality matches the speakers you hook it to. I'd use it to power a Zone2 or my outdoor speakers but maybe not as my reference amp.

If you end up getting it, post on the forum your impressions after you've used it a while, and try to A/B it with another amp during the trial period you have with it to make sure it's right for your set up. I hope it works for you.
Brad

 

[Sarius]

Brad,

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I did go ahead and get the amp... initially I'll be using it alone to break in in. It arrived yesterday and initial impressions are positive in terms of build quality, fit, and finish... but I haven't hooked it up yet

The speakers are an old set of Cambridge Soundworks Towers... the original bi-polar ones. I like the sound, but not a big buck investment, though probably impossible to repair should they be damaged.

The Kandy is an integrated amp, not a receiver and is, IMHO, roughly equivalent to the mid-price Musical Fidelity or Arcam stuff (I compared). It puts out a solid 120 amps into 8 ohms and 220 into 4. It drove my Theil CS2.2's, which are notorious both as power hogs and as very revealing of substandard electronics very well. It has two pre-outs so one can tri-amp with it if one wants.

The Behringer does have gain controls on both channels, so I can use my spl meter to balance them to the Kandy. Good thought about the amps not staying balanced as I change volume. I'll check that. I do most of my serious listening at one setting, so I'll probably critically balance for that, for background listening it's probably not that vital.

Also a good point about potential failures. I'll do the initial burn in with a cheap set speakers. My experience has been that in most cases electronic failures happen quickly, once it's gotten past the first 20 hours or so, there's a very good chance it'll keep on trucking. Behringer isn't a 'fly by night' outfit and seems to have a good reputation in professional circles. Thanks for the suggestion that I not 'smoke test' it on my good speakers

 

[jcPanny]

If a cheap amp has a bad day and fails, hopefully it will just blow a fuse before it damages a speaker driver!

I agree that the Behringer is not appropriate for an audiophile system with $6k speakers, however, it is a pro amp and is designed to handle a lot of abuse. It will also provide a significant power upgrade for any low to mid-fi receiver.

Also note that most speakers are damaged due to lack of amplifier power which cause the amp to go into clipping and frys the tweeters. Thus you are more likely to damage your speakers by overdriving a low end receiver then by using the A500 as an outboard amplifier.

 

[Hi Ho]

What advantages do the multi thousand dollar "home theater" amps have over something like the A500? The A500 is a very sturdy, heavy, and powerful amp with excellent real world specs. I have seen/heard an A500 powering some very nice Martin Logan speakers and it sounded superb.

Now, I have seen multi-thousand dollar "home theater" amps setup and running multi-thousand dollar speakers. Do they sound good? Hell yes! Do they sound any better than a pro amp such as the A500? Not from what I could tell. I say the cost of the speakers should have nothing to do with the cost of the amp. I would run $30,000 worth of speakers with $250 pro amps if it sounded good. I don't give a damn about the cost ratio.

I'd say there is a very high profit margin on "home theater" amps. Amplifiers are not terribly complicated pieces of equipment and the individual parts are not terribly expensive. A lot of money goes into cosmetics. The A500 is an ugly piece of equipment but that wouldn't stop me. I know some people would rather pay a few thousand dollars more for a better looking unit that they can show off but I'm not one of them. When I have a dedicated theater I will probably power it with pro amps but they will be out of sight.

 

[mike c]

hi ho, if you can put them out of sight and of out of your hearing range ... go for the behringer EP2500 (oodles of power and be done asking yourself if the a500 has enough power ... because strong as the a500 is, one unit is only 100+w x 2)

 

[pearsall001]

Sarius

I actually own 2 of the A500's each one running bridged mono at 440x1. Let me tell you the sound is absolutely outstanding. Don't pay attention to those that have never even heard the amps. Maybe the guy w/ the 6k "audiophile" speaker system should give one or two a try, I'll bet he will be in for one hell of an eye opener. Not to worry your speakers won't blow up. It really boggles my mind how guys can form opinions based strictly on price. I bet they've been taken to the cleaners many times when a salesman pegs their mind set. How much do you think most amps are over priced because some do buy & equate quality w/ price. Mistake, big mistake. Those of you passing on these amps because of their price are really missing out on one hell of a performing amp. I actually did compare them to a highly regarded amp - the NuForce 9.02's. I was on there home demo list & I had the pleasure of listening to them for a long weekend. Let me tell you the 9.02's are absolutely incredable in all aspects of music reproduction. Then on the other hand the A500's are also incredable. I would be very happy w/ either amp in my system. However the 9.02's did not move me enough to spring for the extra coin. Everything here is just my opinion based on real life comparisons in my system where it counts.

 

[Hi Ho]

A dedicated theater is a ways off and I don't know what amps I will use. I was simply trying to figure out what the advantages are to using a home theater amp. I don't really see any other than better looks.

 

[mtrycrafts]

What advantages do the multi thousand dollar "home theater" amps have over something like the A500? .

I'd say there is multi thousand $$ advantage only Bragging rights.

Now, stack it up in a DBT. And, those $6k speakers don't know how much the amp costs. Good thing for dumb speakers

 

[jaxvon]

A dedicated theater is a ways off and I don't know what amps I will use. I was simply trying to figure out what the advantages are to using a home theater amp. I don't really see any other than better looks.

Some of them sport a higher build quality that will stand up to more abuse, lower impedances, etc. Many also offer a higher output level. However, given the price, it's hard to beat the Behringer. I could justify spending the extra money to get a Bryston amp because of the bulletproof build quality, the excellent specs, and the 20 year warranty, but their "home theater" amps are exactly the same as their pro studio amps, minus the rack ears. So you're really just buying a pro amp again, albeit a very very nice (and expensive) one.

What does this rambling mean? You're mostly right, Hi-Ho. If you don't have a need to drive super demanding loads like electrostats, you should be doing very well with the Behringer.

 

[Hi Ho]

On the topic of ruggedness, pro amps take a hell of a lot more abuse than a home theater amp. At my high school auditorium they have QSC, Behringer, and Yamaha pro amps. Some are rack mounted, others are moved around. The ones that are consantly moved take a LOT of abuse (dropped off the stage, kicked, played extremely loud, etc.) and have had zero problems. I wouldn't put an expensive and pretty HT amp through that kind of abuse.The pro amps are built to take a real beating.

Now, the A500 is meant to be a studio amp. That implies that it is not meant to be a portable live sound amplifier that takes a ton of abuse. How often does one move amps around in his home theater? I'd say an amp used in an HT application takes a very small fraction of the abuse that an amp used for live sound takes.

 

[jvgillow]

I bought two to use as monoblocks. On both units that I tested there was audible distortion in the high frequencies. Fortunately, I bought them from Parts Express so I was able to return them. If you do want to try them, I'd recommend that you do the same.

-Ben

I noticed slight distortion in my A500 unit as well, however it was very hard to hear and it took me over a month to figure out something was wrong. I doubt it is a common occurrence since so many people seem to be happy with their A500 units.

When I was watching the Chronicles of Narnia movie a week ago I noticed that the children's voices coming from the Left and Right speakers (powered by the A500) were "coarse" for lack of a better adjective, while the vocals from the center speaker (powered by my Pioneer 1015 reciever) were perfectly fine. I hadn't noticed this before because I hadn't watched any movies featuring young kids since February when I got the amp... for adult voices the pitch was different enough to obscure the distortion. I also noticed that the song during the hide-and-seek game sounded more grating than it did in the theater but assumed it was due to my equipment being much different than the commercial stuff. My first impression was actually that I was getting unwanted cabinet resonances from the tower speakers, because it was the kind of distortion you might hear if a screw is slightly loose and buzzing against some plastic... only pops up when you hit the right frequency range.

To make sure I wasn't going crazy (and that my Athena F1 tweeters weren't damaged), I did compare the A500 powering the fronts to the 1015 powering the fronts to a cheap Sherwood RX-4103 receiver powering the fronts (acting as external amp only). The 1015 was used for the DTS decoding throughout. I watched the same scenes over and over (where they meet Mrs. McCready and the hide-and-seek game) with each of the combinations and the A500 had the same problem every time while the other two amps did not. To test a different decoder besides the 1015, I also tried connecting my Sony DVD player directly to the A500 in stereo downmix mode (the DVD player has an internal DTS decoder) and the distortion was still present. I really, really wanted to convince myself the amp was fine and something else was the matter, so I also tried it connected to my Soundblaster Audigy 2 with a different set of cables and a different set of speakers (Athena AS-B1) and was again disappointed (although the distortion was a little less pronounced with this configuration).

When listening to music I was never able to pick up on this type of distortion, however I don't have any high-end equipment to compare it with and most of the music I listen to is rock/pop which doesn't bring out weaknesses in the signal chain very well. The A500 certainly did have plenty of power but once you find the small crack in the finish it becomes impossible to enjoy without thinking about the flaw. I would hope my experience is isolated and would still encourage others to give this amp a shot, so long as you do have the ability to return it if it does have any problems.

This is my first post on Audioholics but please don't think I joined just to rant about the A500. I'm a regular at AVS but there is very little discussion over there about this amplifier so I thought I would post my encounters where it would matter more.

 

[mike c]

thanks for sharing but im sorry to hear that Jeremy, what about trying out your ep2500 to see if its an amp quality question or if its a unit defect question.