Behringer B2030s vs. P362 vs. Other - Setup Included

[mockingboy]

Hello-

I have a few questions for the forum. I currently run the Mission M-Cube 5.1 off of an Integra 4.6 and want to upgrade everything I have. I also already have a Sony PS3 and watch a lot of movies and listen to a fair amount of music through both ipod and through my Project Debut III Turn Table.

The room I will be viewing and listening in is about 18 x 12 and I will be a viewing a 46 inch Samsung LCD from about 7 feet away. I am not looking for a full 5.1 setup but was thinking about starting with either 2 loudspeakers or 3 loudspeakers. My budget for the receiver and first 2 or 3 speakers is $1,000 or so though I could move up if necessary. I watch mostly movies,

I was thinkings about the following two setups:

Speakers (Budget for first two is $500 all-in):

I was thinking about either 3 B2030's or 2 Infinity P362s. I am not sure which I will be better off with because the size of the room isn't that big? Also, if I get the P362s and don't get a center channel, what will I be losing? Could I set up on the B2030's as L-C-R and how does that compare to two of the infinity;s?

Subwoofer question - Can I keep and use the Mission M-Cube subwoofer from the satellite set? How will it function in the context of this new system?

Receiver - Upgrading to the Denon AVR-591. This seems like a great bang for your buck receiver and I am pretty set on it.

Any comments, suggestions, etc. would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[chkngreez]

I would go with the Behringers and yes you can use them as L/C/R. In fact, that would be the ideal setup because they match. I'm saying this because I own a set of the 2030Ps as my Right and Left and they sound absolutely fantastic, especially considering how inexpensive they are. If you shop around, you should be able to do some price matching online and get free shipping. Try American Musical Supply, they price match and generally provide free shipping. I think I paid $119 shipped for the pair, so you could probably get all three for around $180. Can't give any sub advice, I have never owned a pre-manufactured sub. DIY is the only way to go. It provides more satisfaction to do it yourself and usually is a better value, too. The possibilities are endless. As far as a receiver, you might want to check this out before the Denon. Yes, it is factory reconditioned, but it still comes with a full warranty and has a nice power plant and features. http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKTXSR707/Onkyo/TX-SR707-Thx-Select2-Plus-100-watts-channel-7.2-Receiver/1.html or $50 more you can buy it new.

 

[mockingboy]

Thanks for the quick response-

Two other quick questions:

1. Can I still use my old subwoofer even though it was made for the M-Cube satellites? When I look at new Subwoofers (from Hsu for example), they have only two sets of inputs/outputs while my M-Cube Mission sub has 5-outputs and one big plug input which connects to the individual receiver ouputs. I don't know how this would be wired?

2. What are the main differences between the Onkyo and the Denon (I am new to a lot of this).

3. What is the difference between the B2030P abd B2030A?
Thanks,

Mike

 

[shadyJ]

Those will both be great speakers. I think the Primus speakers will have better dynamic response, so they will hit a bit harder. That might make a difference if you like to crank the volume and rock out from time to time. You could also cross over your sub lower with the Primus speakers.

Don't worry about the inputs and outputs on the subwoofer, your M-cube sub was designed for that specific speaker set, you would not want to wire any other speakers through that sub since there is a fixed crossover in that sub which was made for its matching speakers. You can wire any speaker with Hsu's and most other sub's though.

The difference between the 2030p and the 2030a is that the 2030a has a its own built in amplifier, so you would only connect a line level source to them, not speaker wire. If you already have an amplifier, like in your denon receiver, you might as well use that and just get the 2030p's.

 

[sholling]

Thanks for the quick response-

Two other quick questions:

1. Can I still use my old subwoofer even though it was made for the M-Cube satellites? When I look at new Subwoofers (from Hsu for example), they have only two sets of inputs/outputs while my M-Cube Mission sub has 5-outputs and one big plug input which connects to the individual receiver ouputs. I don't know how this would be wired?

I've never seen a Mission Cube but based on the specs it's only an 8" sub. Unless you're in a tiny room I'd start saving for larger.

2. What are the main differences between the Onkyo and the Denon (I am new to a lot of this).

Both are excellent so it's Ford vs Chevy. Figure out how much power you need, and what features you'd like and buy accordingly. You may even be able to save some money buying refurbished. If you're in the US the sources are eCost and Accessories For Less. Of the two I prefer Accessories For Less. Here are two good examples. TX-SR607 and the TX-NR707. Both are last years models so lack 3D support but otherwise rock. If you go with the Infinities you'll want the 4ohm friendly 707.

3. What is the difference between the B2030P abd B2030A?
Thanks,

The "A" has built in amplifiers, the "P" is a conventional passive speaker.

 

[AJinFLA]

Welcome Mockingboy.
There are pro's and con's to both choices.
If you can orient the B2030 center upright, then you have a near ideal front stage of identical sources, unlike the Infinity. You also save substantially on the front stage, allowing more to be spent on subs.
However, as Shady noted, the Infinity's are larger floorstanders that can be crossed much lower (and thus easier to integrate/place the sub(s)) and may play slightly louder (not sure). They definitely have greater sensitivity (louder with same power applied).
Can't go wrong either way, they are both very good designs. perhaps aesthetics/price will be the decider.
You should be able to (and should) use your existing sub as a LF source. Maybe even convert the whole (cube) system as your rear channels to save further.

cheers,

AJ

 

[chkngreez]

Ok, let's do some side by side comparison of the receivers and the speakers. The Onkyo 707 is 100w/ch, THX Ultra 2 Certified, Audyssey EQ and has DACs just in case you want to upgrade to an outboard amp in the future. The Denon is 75w/ch, no thx certification, no Audyssey (but it does have a room correcting eq), no DACs, but it is hdmi 1.4 compatible. Personally I wouldn't let that be a deal breaker being that we don't know yet how the 3d thing is going to pan out long term. That being said, the Infinities have a response from 38-20k, 8 ohms, have 2 6.5 woofers, a 4" mid and a 3/4 inch tweet and are able to handle up to 200 watts. They are also quite a bit more expensive than the 2030s. The Behringers have a 6 3/4 woofer and a 3/4 tweet and can handle 100 watts, with a response of 75-21k. If you are using a sub, I wouldn't worry too much about how low these things can go because you dont need too much overlap between your mains and the sub anyway. If your budget is 1000, you might even still have enough $ to buy a nice pre-built sub or a pro amp and diy sub.

 

[mockingboy]

Thanks everyone for your quick and thoughtful responses. I think I am going to go with the Infinitys and wait on the center channel. I will also use the M-Cube for LF to start and wait to see how my search for a sub goes.

I am considering the Onkyo vs. Denon and will let you guys know which direction I go!

Thanks again

mike

 

[mockingboy]

So are you recommending the 2030p's over the Infinity? It seems pretty economical to purchase 3 of them for like $200 and have a L-C-R setup for now but thinking long term, do the Infinitys have more potential to stay as front speakers if I buy more components/upgrade in a year or two?

Thanks

Ok, let's do some side by side comparison of the receivers and the speakers. The Onkyo 707 is 100w/ch, THX Ultra 2 Certified, Audyssey EQ and has DACs just in case you want to upgrade to an outboard amp in the future. The Denon is 75w/ch, no thx certification, no Audyssey (but it does have a room correcting eq), no DACs, but it is hdmi 1.4 compatible. Personally I wouldn't let that be a deal breaker being that we don't know yet how the 3d thing is going to pan out long term. That being said, the Infinities have a response from 38-20k, 8 ohms, have 2 6.5 woofers, a 4" mid and a 3/4 inch tweet and are able to handle up to 200 watts. They are also quite a bit more expensive than the 2030s. The Behringers have a 6 3/4 woofer and a 3/4 tweet and can handle 100 watts, with a response of 75-21k. If you are using a sub, I wouldn't worry too much about how low these things can go because you dont need too much overlap between your mains and the sub anyway. If your budget is 1000, you might even still have enough $ to buy a nice pre-built sub or a pro amp and diy sub.

 

[chkngreez]

If you want towers, then go with the infinities. Have you heard them before? The thing about the Behringers, if you upgrade later, they could be moved to surround duty, so it isn't like you would be wasting your money on them. I personally couldn't believe the quality of sound they put out when I first hooked mine up. Honestly the quality and clarity is comparable to some towers that are much much more expensive. However, when I have listened to those towers it was in a show room and not my living room, so that makes a difference too. Ultimately it is all about your taste, not mine so I say go with what you want. I just wanted to make sure you were educated before you buy. I didn't have that luxury the first time around and bought a freaking HTIB. Still gives me chills looking back. Good luck and let us know what you come up with.

 

[sholling]

So are you recommending the 2030p's over the Infinity? It seems pretty economical to purchase 3 of them for like $200 and have a L-C-R setup for now but thinking long term, do the Infinitys have more potential to stay as front speakers if I buy more components/upgrade in a year or two?

The B2030Ps are good sounding speakers for the price and do benefit from simple DIY mods. I think you'll find that the Behringers will do fine in a small to medium sized living room. The P362 easily will fill a much larger room but are much larger speakers and cost more than twice as much. I'm told that the Infinities can be also improved a bit by simple DIY mods but I haven't heard the modded version. I think it boils down to room size and personal taste.

As far as the Missions go - unless you need the money from selling them I'd use them for a bedroom system.

 

[mockingboy]

Ok-

Last question (for now!)

What can you guys recommend for a TV/Component Stand. I can not wall mount the 46 inch tv because I am in a rental building in NYC. I am looking to get a tv stand/component stand where I can "mount" the TV on the stand, have room below for a center speaker up front plus my equipment (receiver, turntable, PS3, cable box).

Any recommendations greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Mike

 

[AJinFLA]

I saw several in store (for <$200) at Target this weekend.

 

[chkngreez]

Ok, here is a very well constructed, easy assembly stand that has several slots built in for the components to breathe. If you absolutely have to mount the tv to the stand this will not work for you, but generally the stands with the mounting options are very open, leaving a lot of difficulty in hiding all your wiring. I think they look awful, but that's just me. http://www.hhgregg.com/ProductDetail.asp?SID=n&ProductID=23606 If you must mount the tv to the stand, maybe tone of these would work for you http://www.tvstands.com/Bello-SFP-9901HG-BB1182.htmlhttp://www.tvstands.com/Bello-FP-4850HG-BB1153.html?cv=

 

[sholling]

Walmart and Walmart.com have a decent selection.

 

[mockingboy]

Hey guys-

I wanted to write and say thanks for everyone's help. I bought the Infinity P362s and am thinking about adding the PC350 as well as a sub.

Need to decided on a component rack or AV stand, not sure what I am looking for....

Thanks!

MC

 

[tonedeaf]

Good choice,you won't be disappointed.
Excellent sounding speakers for the price point.
I have the 362's and 350 center.Surrounds are 152'.PC12 plus for a sub.
Have fun,enjoy.

 

[mockingboy]

Hey guys-

So I ended up buying the P362s, the Denon AVR590, and have been using my Mission sub (which I don't love).

After getting everything set up, I decided that I wanted to plunge a bit deeper.

Just bought the PC350 as a center channel as well as 2 P162s for surround sound.

Next up, upgrade the subwoofer which doesn't seem to be really doing much when I listen to music or watch blu-ray. Could be my set-up isn't perfect but I can post details of that shortly.

What do you guys think?

 

[shadyJ]

I don't know how strong or weak your sub is, but it should be doing something. If you can't hear it at all, but you know it is working, than you have a placement issue. While it is definitely worth upgrading, it won't solve the placement problem. If you have the freedom to place it in other locations, try moving it around to see how the sound changes. Look into sub-crawling, near-field placement, corner-loading, and other subwoofer placement strategies. But it is still worth upgrading, your sub isn't really that good, no offense.

 

[KEW]

I agree with ShadyJ.
While your mission sub is not an impressive sub, it should definitely add something to the low end of the infinities.
According to a review I found, it has a decent design - it has twin 8" drivers with 250 Watts, and the LF -3dB point is adjustable from 28-40Hz (using a "pop-up knob?). You might try playing with that adjustment as well. On paper, this sub should add to your P362's.
IMHO, you should go ahead and address this issue before you get the new sub. If you upgrade, the new sub may be able to provide sufficient bass for you to become complacent. However, if you don't find the right position, your new sub's sound will still be degraded by the same issue you are currently confronting. It would be a shame to only get acceptable sound from a sub capable of great sound.