Bass response

[matt houser]

Can anyone offer any insight I just got room EQ wizars and these are my initial results, there seems to be what looks like to me a major peek at 50 and then a sharp dip at 60, what are some recommendations to start smoothing the response, I am brand new to this so I am curious how bad this actually is

 

[Danzilla31]

Can anyone offer any insight I just got room EQ wizars and these are my initial results, there seems to be what looks like to me a major peek at 50 and then a sharp dip at 60, what are some recommendations to start smoothing the response, I am brand new to this so I am curious how bad this actually is

I'm new to room eq myself so I'll let the better experienced members chime in but I'll ask some advance questions to help them figure it out with you.

How many subs do you have?

What make or model are they?

What is the size of the room it's dimensions?

Do you have any pics of the room you can send so they can better see the layout?

What's your setup speakers avr etc and what do you have the crossovers set at?

And finally where are your subs positioned in the room?

This info and some pics might help everyone figure out what's going on with your room and the sub and how to help.

What Ive learned from everyone here when they help me with issues is the more data I can give them the better.

 

[lovinthehd]

....also information about mic placement, number of measurements, scale of the graph, if any smoothing applied, subs alone or combined response, that sort of thing.

 

[matt houser]

I have two HSU vtf-3 mk5 subs, One in each front corner, my room size is almost exactly 2000 ft.³, I have level matched the two fronts and the subs, no room correction has been applied, I have the crossovers set at 80 Hz, The receiver is a Denon X3400H and the mains are ascend acoustics 340se, The mic is placed a right at my listening position, this is a sweep from 20 Hz up to 200 Hz between the two subs and the mains, I have an applied anything as I am brand new to the REW software what I did do is try to make sure everything was off that way I got a raw reading, no Odyssey, just stereo left and right and the two subs

 

[matt houser]

The subs are hard to see they are in the corners front left and right

 

[matt houser]

I was able to flatten out the response a whole lot better below my crossover point of 80 herts but above 90 hertz looks like a total nightmare & with every little thing i try I can’t smooth it out above 90 hertz

 

[lovinthehd]

I was able to flatten out the response a whole lot better below my crossover point of 80 herts but above 90 hertz looks like a total nightmare & with every little thing i try I can’t smooth it out above 90 hertz

Are you using a single mic position rather than several averaged? A single may not tell you much except about that particular point in the room. What are you doing to effect smoothing response? Changing sub positions or have a minidsp eq unit or?

 

[matt houser]

There’s really only three seats that I care about and that is pretty much the couch as this is a living room system , I wish I knew what to do about smoothing response, I can’t move the subs anywhere else they’re stuck in the only two corners in the room which happens to be in front, I have considered a mini DSP, I smoothed out the frequencies below the crossover but above that is a nightmare

 

[lovinthehd]

There’s really only three seats that I care about and that is pretty much the couch as this is a living room system , I wish I knew what to do about smoothing response, I can’t move the subs anywhere else they’re stuck in the only two corners in the room which happens to be in front, I have considered a mini DSP, I smoothed out the frequencies below the crossover but above that is a nightmare

How did you smooth the frequencies out below the crossover?

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

I was able to flatten out the response a whole lot better below my crossover point of 80 herts but above 90 hertz looks like a total nightmare & with every little thing i try I can’t smooth it out above 90 hertz

Add the main speakers to the measurement – they’ll probably help clean up things in the 90 Hz area.

BTW, that little icon top left of the graph that's labeled “Capture” will let you generate and save a .jpg of the graph right to your computer. No reason to mess with camera pics.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[matt houser]

How did you smooth the frequencies out below the crossover?

I think what seemed to smooth out that huge dip and peak that I had around 60 Hz was subtracting 2 feet off of the distance setting of the subs, I tinkered for several hours yesterday making all kind of adjustments, I think I proved that when I ran Odyssey with the flat curve it definitely seemed to help smooth things out also, but the problem is everything above 90 hurts is a total mess regardless of anything I messed with even crossovers nothing would smooth out the response above 90 hurts, i’m still quite new to all this but I can’t help but wonder, my house is pretty wide open to the kitchen and a few rooms, These 5 inch drivers on the ascend acoustics might be having a hard time pressurizing all the space

 

[Danzilla31]

I think what seemed to smooth out that huge dip and peak that I had around 60 Hz was subtracting 2 feet off of the distance setting of the subs, I tinkered for several hours yesterday making all kind of adjustments, I think I proved that when I ran Odyssey with the flat curve it definitely seemed to help smooth things out also, but the problem is everything above 90 hurts is a total mess regardless of anything I messed with even crossovers nothing would smooth out the response above 90 hurts, i’m still quite new to all this but I can’t help but wonder, my house is pretty wide open to the kitchen and a few rooms, These 5 inch drivers on the ascend acoustics might be having a hard time pressurizing all the space

It sucks that that's the only spot you can put those subs. Bass is highly room interactive and I bet in different positions in that room you could just by moving the subs greatly change your results hopefully for the better.

But if your throwing everything at the kitchen sink at the curve where they are sitting and nothing is changing well then I'm afraid it might be a position issue. Where they are at is not the best place in that room

I know it's not the subs those are highly competent subs that's for sure

 

[matt houser]

It sucks that that's the only spot you can put those subs. Bass is highly room interactive and I bet in different positions in that room you could just by moving the subs greatly change your results hopefully for the better.

But if your throwing everything at the kitchen sink at the curve where they are sitting and nothing is changing well then I'm afraid it might be a position issue. Where they are at is not the best place in that room

I know it's not the subs those are highly competent subs that's for sure

I could possibly pull one sub away from the corner, I know that corner loading can cause bumps in the frequencies do to room gain but a lot of the research I have done corner loading from what I’ve gotten out of it isn’t the worst thing in the world, why might you suggest that The placement of my subs is so bad, I know a lot of guys actually prefer corner loading

 

[Danzilla31]

I could possibly pull one sub away from the corner, I know that corner loading can cause bumps in the frequencies do to room gain but a lot of the research I have done corner loading from what I’ve gotten out of it isn’t the worst thing in the world, why might you suggest that The placement of my subs is so bad, I know a lot of guys actually prefer corner loading

I'm not implying your placement is bad at all I just think we can fall into the trap of because someone uses a technique it should work. Problem with that narrow of a focus with subwoofers is well it doesn't always work that way.

That's due to the fact that the room influences the sound of the subwoofer to a huge huge degree more then the other way around. You can buy the best most powerful sub in the world put it in the wrong spot in the room and well.... That sub will not beat that room and all the eq in the world can't fix that. That's just how bass works in real room applications

So I've found that being open minded to approaches with subs works best

My setup is in my living room and on the front wall with the 3 towers is ideally where I wanted to go. But no matter what I tried I was having issues with the sound there. I have dual PB 4000's and they were just overloading that wall and causing all sorts of issues with room gain

I finally accepted I was going to have to relocate them behind the coaches were they measured better. And the difference was night and friggin day man. And they needed almost no eq in that spot. In that part of the room they worked with the room not against it

 

[Danzilla31]

I could possibly pull one sub away from the corner, I know that corner loading can cause bumps in the frequencies do to room gain but a lot of the research I have done corner loading from what I’ve gotten out of it isn’t the worst thing in the world, why might you suggest that The placement of my subs is so bad, I know a lot of guys actually prefer corner loading

I'm single so I can rearrange stuff in my living room all day long you may not have that option.

But those are powerful subs you have so corner loading especially since it can boost some frequencies may just not be working for you

Also since your trying everything you can and it's not improving the issue the issue may not be eq or the subs or towers I'm just thinking you might if it's possible try sub placement to help with measuresments

Understand any spot in the room will always have some give and take. Your looking for the spot that gives the overall best flattest response across the widest part of your listening area as possible.

 

[Danzilla31]

I could possibly pull one sub away from the corner, I know that corner loading can cause bumps in the frequencies do to room gain but a lot of the research I have done corner loading from what I’ve gotten out of it isn’t the worst thing in the world, why might you suggest that The placement of my subs is so bad, I know a lot of guys actually prefer corner loading

If you can get creative and find spots to place them in the room with a little rearranging of stuff if that's realistic well it can't hurt to try

 

[Danzilla31]

If you can get creative and find spots to place them in the room with a little rearranging of stuff if that's realistic well it can't hurt to try

But hopefully some of our more experienced members may have some good ideas that may help you with where your at and you don't have to go that route

 

[lovinthehd]

I think what seemed to smooth out that huge dip and peak that I had around 60 Hz was subtracting 2 feet off of the distance setting of the subs, I tinkered for several hours yesterday making all kind of adjustments, I think I proved that when I ran Odyssey with the flat curve it definitely seemed to help smooth things out also, but the problem is everything above 90 hurts is a total mess regardless of anything I messed with even crossovers nothing would smooth out the response above 90 hurts, i’m still quite new to all this but I can’t help but wonder, my house is pretty wide open to the kitchen and a few rooms, These 5 inch drivers on the ascend acoustics might be having a hard time pressurizing all the space

FWIW usually one would assume you were either moving subs/speakers around or applying EQ when you say you were able to smooth response somehow. Playing with the phase via the delay/distance adjustment with subs can be helpful, tho (might look at this article https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-setup/subwoofer-placement-the-place-for-bass-part-1/subwoofer-placement-the-place-for-bass-part-1-page-5). The flat curve applied after you run Audyssey merely means it isn't rolling off the high end frequencies; the reference or movie curve does roll off the highest frequencies (and these are post-Audyssey only, doesn't matter where set when running Audyssey as Audyssey will reset everything as you run thru it). Room modes can be difficult, especially nulls; eq can only help so much but trying different speaker/sub placement may help.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I wouldn’t worry about your subs at all. Their response looks good. I would try and pull the speakers out from the wall if you can. That’s where your troubled area is coming from since that’s above the XO. Not sure how it came up to move the subs to fix that... FWIW I’ve corner loading to work better as well. Also, some of the anomalies above the XO could be from reflections off of the couch to mic. Try a heavy blanket on the back of the couch and see if the sweep changes. Also, subtracting distance usually makes bass sloppier as that will add delay since you’ve told the AVR that the subs are closer. If you add distance, it will lessen the delay time and help impulse response, and smooth frequency response. I see that your FR has improved, but I would guess it sounds looser because you’ve added cycles(phase/delay) to the processing. That’s not readily apparent from a FR sweep. Try adding some distance in one foot increments and resweep after each time. My hunch is between that, and moving out your mains, subwoofer FR will stay good, but above xo will improve, and bass will tighten up.

 

[Danzilla31]

I wouldn’t worry about your subs at all. Their response looks good. I would try and pull the speakers out from the wall if you can. That’s where your troubled area is coming from since that’s above the XO. Not sure how it came up to move the subs to fix that... FWIW I’ve corner loading to work better as well. Also, some of the anomalies above the XO could be from reflections off of the couch to mic. Try a heavy blanket on the back of the couch and see if the sweep changes. Also, subtracting distance usually makes bass sloppier as that will add delay since you’ve told the AVR that the subs are closer. If you add distance, it will lessen the delay time and help impulse response, and smooth frequency response. I see that your FR has improved, but I would guess it sounds looser because you’ve added cycles(phase/delay) to the processing. That’s not readily apparent from a FR sweep. Try adding some distance in one foot increments and resweep after each time. My hunch is between that, and moving out your mains, subwoofer FR will stay good, but above xo will improve, and bass will tighten up.

And sees that's why I was suggesting our more experienced ones chime in says the humble grasshopper!