Bass Management RX-V1500

[Azz123]

Having read many many articles on Bass management, I still have some unanswered questions regarding the Bass Management for my HT setup and really would love some advice from those that read and input to this forum.

I appreciate many settings at the end of the day come down to "what sounds right for you." However I like to set anything as technically correct as possible. Hence my debarkle. As most of the written theory written on Bass Management is generic, I am wondering if there is anything specific to Yamaha, In particular the RX-V1500's setup that I should apply to my scenario.

Reading Gene DellaSala's article - The Bass Management Dilemma, I came across the following and am now wondering if it overrides all other theory for Bass Management when it comes to the RX-V1500?
Quote:
"What About THX Systems?
THX is almost a different beast altogether. A THX Select or Ultra2 system is specifically designed to have the bass management set at 80Hz. While you are free to alter the crossover frequency of a THX system, you will not be utilizing the system as it was intended to be heard. In addition, THX processing and DSP assumes (and sometimes initiates) an 80Hz crossover setting for the LFE. While a THX system may not be desired by everyone, we actually recommend those systems (assuming THX speakers in conjunction with a THX receiver/processor) be configured as recommended."

My System Comprises
Yamaha RX-V1500

Front L&R: AAD (American Acoustic Development) C600i
20-180watts, 91dB, 6 ohms, Response - 32Hz-20KHz (BiWired via Speakers A&B outputs)
http://www.aadsound.com/Products%20Page/C%20Series%20Product/C600i.html

Centre: AAD C401i
20-180watts, 91dB, 6 ohms, Response - 40Hz - 20KHz
http://www.aadsound.com/Products%20Page/C%20Series%20Product/c401%20product%20page.html

Rear: Wharfedale Valdus 100 (v.1)
100watt (180w peak) 8 ohms, Response UNKNOWN
Drive units: 120mm polypropylene bass, 28mm dome tweeter

Sub: Velodyne CHT-10R
175watt (375 peak), 28Hz-120Hz (+/-3dB) LP Crossover set to Direct.
http://www.velodyne.com/velodyne/products/specs/cht_r.html

Yamaha YPAO sets the above configuration when the Equalizer is set to FRONT (Front speakers being of higher quality than all others) as Fronts & Centre large, Rear small, and Crossover at 40Hz.
Equalizer set to FLAT (all speakers of similar quality) Speaker size as above and Crossover increases to 100Hz.

My preferred Mid Bass and treble listening is with the Equalizer having been set to FRONT. The FLAT setting seems to really reduce the treble and upper frequencies of the Front L&R speakers.

Seeing as 90% of my usage is Home Theatre, do I set all speakers to SMALL and run the crossover at 80Hz per THX as this Receiver has some sort of THX stamp?
OR-
Do I leave settings per YPAO with Equalizer set to FRONT making the Fronts and centre LARGE and rears as small and override the crossover setting to say 80Hz in compensation for the small rears?
OR-
Perhaps equalizer as above and all speakers set to small with the crossover at about 60Hz making the assumption that not a whole lot of lower frequency information gets sent (therefore lost) to the rear and 60Hz is about an octave above(?) the lowest range of the fronts & centre?

Your guidance and feedback is appreciated. My juvenile ears are improving however I believe that if the system is set technically correct then I'm more than 1/2 way better off than guessing the correct setup.

Thanks in advance.

Aaron

 

[zumbo]

Nice looking speakers with some impressive specs.

I would set the system like this.

Set all speakers to SMALL.

Set LFE(looks like you call it EQ) to SUB.

I like FLAT for the EQ. If you want more treble, try HIGH.

Set crossover to 60. This gives a MUCH better blend with the sub.

Choose SKIP speaker size, and run YPAO again. Make sure your crossover is disabled, bypassed, or turned to it's highest level on the sub. Set the gain(volume) level on the sub half way(12 O'clock). Now, after you run YPAO, you can turn up the gain on the sub to your prefered level.

THIS IS HOW I HAVE MY 1400.

 

[Azz123]

Thanks for the input Zumbo...

Anyone with a RX-V1500 or 2500 care to comment?

A

 

[supervij]

I know I don't count, as I own the 750, but the settings that were suggested (all speakers small, output to sub only and crossover of 60) is exactly what I have, and I find the sound is much better than any other settings I've tried. Good luck!

cheers,
supervij

 

[RJB]

Same setting I have

These are the same settings I have on my 1500. They work very well for me.

 

[gwilav]

The EQ setting front does not EQ the front speakers it EQ's the other speakers to match the response of the fronts, flat EQ's all the speakers for flat room response. Setup for your speakers would be fronts large,center small, rears small, bass to both. Crossover setting probably at 60hz if rears will tolerate it, otherwise go to 80hz.

 

[Audioholics]

The EQ setting front does not EQ the front speakers it EQ's the other speakers to match the response of the fronts, flat EQ's all the speakers for flat room response. Setup for your speakers would be fronts large,center small, rears small, bass to both. Crossover setting probably at 60hz if rears will tolerate it, otherwise go to 80hz.

That would be one way to do it, yes.

You need to try several things. I personally would go for all SMALL and play with a 60Hz or 80Hz crossover on that sub. Also move that sub around to make sure you get the best room response for it.

 

[zumbo]

The EQ setting front does not EQ the front speakers it EQ's the other speakers to match the response of the fronts, flat EQ's all the speakers for flat room response. Setup for your speakers would be fronts large,center small, rears small, bass to both. Crossover setting probably at 60hz if rears will tolerate it, otherwise go to 80hz.

Wrong. You may want to try my recommendation for yourself. Unless you have some big-ole woofers in your mains, you don't want sub bass coming through them. How are they going to be matched to the center if it is set to small and they are set to large?

 

[Azz123]

Zumbo Clint is right about the definition of FLAT and FRONT for the setup of the EQ.
And what sort of range (Hz) would you contemplate bass being sent to your mains?(LARGE setting) Mine go down to 32Hz - I dont consider that low enough so I set mine to small. YPAO wants to set mains & centre to LARGE. Centre specs per above.
From the Manual
EQUALIZING
FRONT - To adjust the freq. response of each speaker in accordance with the sound of your front speakers. Recommended if your front speakers are of much higher quality than your other speakers.

FLAT - To average the freq. response of all speakers. Recommended if all of yur speakers of similar quality.
There is also LOW, MID, HIGH options.

LFE - Sub output I have set to SUB, though the above is a different setting.

Currently I have crossover at 60Hz - all seems well.. Nemo's in the whales mouth scene at -5dB is a good test..

A


Zumbo you have a Yami Receiver? Your reply earlier I assumed you don't.....

 

[zumbo]

I have a 1400
My options for the EQ are : FLAT, LOW, MID, and HIGH.
My options for LFE are: SWFR, FRNT, and BOTH

Yours are the same.
EQ settings on page 27 (I recommend FLAT)
Size settings on page 55 (I recommend all SMALL)
LFE settings on page 56 (I recommend SWFR)
Crossover settings on page 57 (I recommend 60)

Before you run YPAO, set the size feature to SKIP.

Try to calm down and read the complete thread and the complete manual before you start jumping. I am helping you.

 

[Azz123]

I have a 1400
My options for the EQ are : FLAT, LOW, MID, and HIGH.
My options for LFE are: SWFR, FRNT, and BOTH

Yours are the same.
EQ settings on page 27 (I recommend FLAT)
Size settings on page 55 (I recommend all SMALL)
LFE settings on page 56 (I recommend SWFR)
Crossover settings on page 57 (I recommend 60)

Before you run YPAO, set the size feature to SKIP.

Try to calm down and read the complete thread and the complete manual before you start jumping. I am helping you. [/QUOTE

Mate, Im very calm..... <smiles>
In your first reply the "Set LFE(looks like you call it EQ) to SUB." had me a little baffled.. All is now clear!!

So for EQ you don't have FRONT, or just don't like it?? - Its a honest question....

Before you would consider fronts truly Large, what sort of minimum Hz do you think they should be comfortable with? Personally I dont think mine go low enough to truly get the most from some of the LFE thrown out of some films. That Nemo scene I mentioned and having just watched Incredibles at some decent dB swapping between Large and Small I'm sure I could hear some over extension or some sort of unhappiness..

Cheers and thanks for your help..


A

 

[zumbo]

So for EQ you don't have FRONT, or just don't like it?? - Its a honest question....

FRONT is not an option in the EQ setting.

Your speakers rating of 32Hz is very impressive, however it would need(IMO) to be able to reproduce the full range all the way to 20Hz. Also, I think you want your mains to be crossed over handing off the lower frequencies to the sub. This helps your mains remain clean and detailed. The low frequencies make the mid-woofers move. This distorts the mid-range. Although they will move set to 60Hz, they will still be more detailed than if they were to try and reproduce the full range.

Oh, I meant calm(slow) down while reading. You had misread an earlier response in the thread and set-up instructions in your manual.

 

[RJB]

Not that it matters in this case but...

FRONT is not an option in the EQ setting.



FRONT is one of the EQ settings available on the RX-V1500 ( page 27 )

 

[zumbo]

Ouch. I see. I missed that while looking through the manual on the Yamaha website.

Sorry about that Azz123.

Well, seeing that the mains and center speakers are of similar quality, I still believe I would go with FLAT.

 

[gwilav]

The EQ settings are not the same for the older RXV-1400/2400 are not the same as the RXV-1500/2500. If you like the sound of your front speakers as set up in your room without the EQ then use front to match your other speakers to it. If you can't get them to sound the way you like in your room then set to flat and the EQ will adjust all the speakers. In my experience you will not have a problem running your front speakers on large with movies(music is rarely a problem) because most movies with a lot of special effects will send it to the sub anyway in the LFE output. Your tower speakers should have no problem handling the bass. Setting bass out to both will not affect the LFE, it will still go the sub. But on music the front speakers will get full range sound and the sub will also get bass, you can then blend the sub with the fronts for the most natural sound. Many people like this set-up best for music, but if you mostly watch movies you may prefer your fronts on small. This is all subjective and you should try it both ways to see what you like.

 

[flexodude]

Not working for Me?


I ran my YPAO, used the settings suggested in this thread.

After YPAO finnished, I checked the settings and noticed that LFE had switched to BOTH.

Why is this happening, I set LFE to Sub before I ran YPAO. I turned the Sub to its highest level and disengaged the crossover. I also skipped the speaker size in the setup.

Thanks in advance,
Roger

Nice looking speakers with some impressive specs.

I would set the system like this.

Set all speakers to SMALL.

Set LFE(looks like you call it EQ) to SUB.

I like FLAT for the EQ. If you want more treble, try HIGH.

Set crossover to 60. This gives a MUCH better blend with the sub.

Choose SKIP speaker size, and run YPAO again. Make sure your crossover is disabled, bypassed, or turned to it's highest level on the sub. Set the gain(volume) level on the sub half way(12 O'clock). Now, after you run YPAO, you can turn up the gain on the sub to your prefered level.

THIS IS HOW I HAVE MY 1400.

 

[Nick250]

With Denon's Audyssey, after you run it you have to go in and change all the speakers back to small and set the crossovers back to 80Hz. You have to do it every time after you run Auto EQ. It's just one of those things that Audyssey does not get right. Perhaps YPAO is the same.

Nick

 

[Nuglets]

I don't use YPAO at all. I have done too many trials with a dead silent room and no change in microphone position with considerably variable results to trust it so I would just mess around and see what sounds best if I were you. Considering that you use a powered sub that goes lower than any of your other speakers I would definitely experiment with all speakers set to small with small changes in the crossover setting. I personally would go with small if I had a powered sub, which I don't but used to, but honestly as far as YPAO is concerned I've had nothing but bad results with it so in my opinion use it sparingly. The distance measurement is the only thing that YPAO has done accurately for me so try for yourself and let us know what happens. Good luck.

 

[flexodude]

I don't use YPAO at all. I have done too many trials with a dead silent room and no change in microphone position with considerably variable results to trust it so I would just mess around and see what sounds best if I were you. Considering that you use a powered sub that goes lower than any of your other speakers I would definitely experiment with all speakers set to small with small changes in the crossover setting. I personally would go with small if I had a powered sub, which I don't but used to, but honestly as far as YPAO is concerned I've had nothing but bad results with it so in my opinion use it sparingly. The distance measurement is the only thing that YPAO has done accurately for me so try for yourself and let us know what happens. Good luck.

Thanks for the advice, I will read the manual and the forums, plus experiment with my set-up.

I find I still have a lot to learn, I'm weak in regards to understanding how to use the built in EQ on the yamaha to get the best sound and I don't understand the different Crossover settings and how they effect the front speakers. eg. 80, 60 or 40?

Here's what I have now, EQ settings on FLAT, speakers set to SMALL, LFE set to SWFR, Crossover setting 60.

I raised the volume on the Sub to match the other speakers, YPAO set the SUB way to low, you couldn't even hear it.

 

[Tomorrow]

Thanks for the advice, I will read the manual and the forums, plus experiment with my set-up.

I find I still have a lot to learn, I'm weak in regards to understanding how to use the built in EQ on the yamaha to get the best sound and I don't understand the different Crossover settings and how they effect the front speakers. eg. 80, 60 or 40?

Here's what I have now, EQ settings on FLAT, speakers set to SMALL, LFE set to SWFR, Crossover setting 60.

I raised the volume on the Sub to match the other speakers, YPAO set the SUB way to low, you couldn't even hear it.

This sounds like a good setup...similar to my RX-V2500 (tho' I cross over at 80 Hz, even with large floorstanders). One word to the wise, however...you don't really want to "hear" the subwoofer. Ideally, you'd like it to blend in with the rest of your system, giving the system a nice and deep extension, but NOT call attention to the sub.

YPAO works well for me in all regards EXCEPT speaker phase setting (which I ignore because I know it's wrong).

Once you get your system wired in, you'll thoroughly enjoy the sound.

Good cheer.