Banana Plugs and Potential for Short

[Space2013]

I'm setting up my 5.1 home theater with banana plugs for the first time and I'm wondering if I should be concerned about shorts if they touch each other. I put a few banana plugs into the back of my Denon X2300 reciever and they can easily flex and touch each-other. Most banana plugs seem to have metal exterior jackets, which would lead me to believe they could cause a short if they touch. Are there any good insulated plugs? I talked to one manufacturer who said their metal jacks were "anodized". Is that enough to prevent shorts? I don't know much about anodized metal, but from what I briefly read it seems it would not be great at preventing shorts as any surface defects would allow a short.

 

[ryanosaur]

http://www.chemprocessing.com/page.asp?PageID=1

FWIW.

 

[markw]

If you don't kerfutz with the connections or move the receiver with the power on you should be fine,

I use these with no problems.

https://www.amazon.com/Sewell-Direct-SW-29863-12-Deadbolt-12-Pair/dp/B006U3O566/ref=asc_df_B006U3O566/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=167141218295&hvpos=1o3&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13874616471724572880&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9027906&hvtargid=pla-305877648389&psc=1

If you're that worried, a layer of electrical tape can solve any problems. It comes in colors other than black as well.

 

[Space2013]

http://www.chemprocessing.com/page.asp?PageID=1

FWIW.

Interesting. I had one company tell me their jackets were metal but anodized so maybe that is enough to prevent a short? I just thought it was easy for the anodized layer to come off, but perhaps I’m over thinking it. I just feel nervous having exposed conductors for some reason, it’s why I’ve avoided banana plugs so long.

 

[ryanosaur]

Perhaps I'm foolish for trusting that these companies aren't going to intentionally put a bad electrical component on the marketplace. For me, I do my due diligence in installing them as cleanly as I can with my cables secured in a way that I can't tug on them directly from the run, and I have the slack to safely pull my AVR out, too.

My Monoprice 12awg is fairly flexible, I guess... much more so than the Ethernets, Digital Coax, and HDMIs.

To be fair, I haven't had any of those break a connection point yet.

Cheers!

 

[Swerd]

Anodized aluminum (a thin coat of aluminum oxide) is a dielectric, an electrical insulator. It's tough and resists scratches.

Interesting. I had one company tell me their jackets were metal but anodized so maybe that is enough to prevent a short? I just thought it was easy for the anodized layer to come off, but perhaps I’m over thinking it. I just feel nervous having exposed conductors for some reason, it’s why I’ve avoided banana plugs so long.

I can understand feeling nervous about those thicker based metal banana plugs, but I use the Sewel Deadbolt type, without any trouble. I like how tightly they crimp the wire strands as I fasten them. In my hands, they never come loose, unlike the plugs with the set-screws. But others use them with good results. Sewel appears to make a wide range of good banana plugs.

At first, I covered every other one with plastic insulation tubes I had lying around, but they eventually fell off. Like yourself, I was over-thinking things. After that, I never bothered with electrical tape.

 

[Bob Leonard]

I use these BFA style banana pluge from Parts Express

 

[highfigh]

Interesting. I had one company tell me their jackets were metal but anodized so maybe that is enough to prevent a short? I just thought it was easy for the anodized layer to come off, but perhaps I’m over thinking it. I just feel nervous having exposed conductors for some reason, it’s why I’ve avoided banana plugs so long.

I wouldn't use extremely long connectors and if the AVR is moved frequently, I probably wouldn't use them at all unless the cable management made it difficult for the bananas to be stressed.

If the equipment is in a real rack with access to the rear, I would use banana plugs- if not, I prefer using the binding posts and inserting the wires directly- that way, you don't need to worry about shorting or taking the extra depth.

It would be great if the binding posts were the same width as the paired plugs- that way, there would be no way for them to short.

When I can use the kind that are paired, I use these (speaker binding posts are usually at this width)-

https://www.parts-express.com/parts-express-gold-dual-banana-plug-black--091-334

when I can't, I use these-

https://www.parts-express.com/banana-speaker-plug-2-pair--091-1260

 

[Space2013]

View attachment 29764I use these BFA style banana pluge from Parts Express

Do BFA style plugs fit into normal binding posts? Do I need special binding posts?

 

[KEW]

If you disconnect a speaker while still connected in the AVR that is an opportunity for a short, but I always make it a point to pull one of the plugs from the back of the AVR before I unplugged a speaker if I'm switching speakers.
In the AVRs I'm currently using The plugs are across the bottom of the rear panel. And I can unplug either the red or the black banana plug and let it hang below the unit so there is only one hot line going to the speakers. at that point if the ones at the speakers contact each other there's no short.
There must be a clearer way to say it, does not occur to me right now but ask questions if you don't follow what I am saying. The main thing is disconnect at the AVR end first then you don't have to worry about shorts along the cables or at the speaker end.

 

[Verdinut]

It's a lot simpler and less risky just to turn off the AVR before disconnecting a speaker.

 

[lovinthehd]

While I've got plenty of anodized aluminum parts on my bikes, didn't realize that about conductivity with my banana plugs...no wonder they haven't had any issues when they've touched

 

[ryanosaur]

Just randomly:
https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-banana-plugs/
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-audio-theory-setup-chat/815518-banana-plugs-ruining-your-equipment.html

There are other such threads and conversations floating around about shorts from speaker wire and banana plugs. But nowhere in the 15 minutes I was seaching did I see a person actually say, " My bananas blew up my receiver!"
I think the best thing you can do for your confidence is test a banana plug with a battery and a light bulb or use a multimeter.
If you fix your wires in a way to alleviate any stress on the connection, I think you are fine. That's what I would do. I would also send that wire back if it truly is as stiff as you say...
As an example, I can bend my 12AWG around on itself with a 1.25" radius using almost no pressure. With a little bit a play, I can quite easily achieve a 1.125" diameter loop, still applying little force.

 

[ryanosaur]

Two visuals: the Rear Surrounds coming out of my Marantz, and my Main Right and Surround Right as they come off of the Monoblocks.

Other than needing to dust... there isn’t much to see. No stress on the wires, no stress on the connections. Yes, I can physically squeeze them together but I don’t think I can do so and make them touch.

Cheers!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Space2013]

Just randomly:
https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-banana-plugs/
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-audio-theory-setup-chat/815518-banana-plugs-ruining-your-equipment.html

There are other such threads and conversations floating around about shorts from speaker wire and banana plugs. But nowhere in the 15 minutes I was seaching did I see a person actually say, " My bananas blew up my receiver!"
I think the best thing you can do for your confidence is test a banana plug with a battery and a light bulb or use a multimeter.
If you fix your wires in a way to alleviate any stress on the connection, I think you are fine. That's what I would do. I would also send that wire back if it truly is as stiff as you say...
As an example, I can bend my 12AWG around on itself with a 1.25" radius using almost no pressure. With a little bit a play, I can quite easily achieve a 1.125" diameter loop, still applying little force.

Thanks. The wire I have is stiffer than what I had before. I actually got it after reading recommendations form this site. It is from BJC and is the Belden 5000UE. I think it is just stiffer than I'm used to because it is 12 AWG instead of 16 AWG I was using previously and it is only 19 strands, so each strand is pretty thick. The reality is even with very flexible speaker wire, I don't think it would take much pressure to push the two banana plugs together on the back of the Denon X2300. I will definitely take another look at my setup and see if I can route the wires so there isn't any stress on the receiver. I'll also take a look at some of the banana plugs on Parts Express too as they have a few that specifically have polycarbonate exterior.

Question: do BFA style banana plugs work in all the same binding posts as regular banana plugs? Is there any issue using BFA style plugs?

 

[lovinthehd]

19 strands isn't very much. The stuff I use (12g) is 67 strands. Why would pressure be applied like with your hands, tho? I'd think those BFA type plugs, which I haven't tried, would be fine, too.

 

[ryanosaur]

Question: do BFA style banana plugs work in all the same binding posts as regular banana plugs? Is there any issue using BFA style plugs?

End of the day... you do for yourself what you need. Dig?
Personally, I think you overspent on the cabling and connectors. Please, I'm not saying that to be judgemental. But you got it, so how do you use it? I think it might be a helluva a lot cheaper to put heat-shrink insulators over the anodized jackets. Cheaper still to use electrical tape.
The thing I don't like about the PE dual set screws is they both hit from the same side, rather than crimp the cable between two opposed set screws. so Plastic Insulator: Kudos. Lackadaisical engineering, though!

Again... in this hobby, a multimeter is a simple tool to have on hand, and you should be able to check if those bananas are conducting. If they are, somethings wrong, and you should send them back! If they aren't, use them and maybe fix your cabling so there is minimized stress on the connection, and it should be fine.

Best,
R

 

[Space2013]

End of the day... you do for yourself what you need. Dig?
Personally, I think you overspent on the cabling and connectors. Please, I'm not saying that to be judgemental. But you got it, so how do you use it? I think it might be a helluva a lot cheaper to put heat-shrink insulators over the anodized jackets. Cheaper still to use electrical tape.
The thing I don't like about the PE dual set screws is they both hit from the same side, rather than crimp the cable between two opposed set screws. so Plastic Insulator: Kudos. Lackadaisical engineering, though!

Again... in this hobby, a multimeter is a simple tool to have on hand, and you should be able to check if those bananas are conducting. If they are, somethings wrong, and you should send them back! If they aren't, use them and maybe fix your cabling so there is minimized stress on the connection, and it should be fine.

Best,
R

You make an excellent point. I’ll look into using what I have. If I do use heat shrink wrap, where is a good place to get some? Might look a bit tidier than electrical tape. Thanks for helping me keep things in perspective!

 

[mtrycrafts]

I have those Sewell connectors as well and it does bend a little, yes. I have come to the conclusion that because the contact blades are curved, that allows the flex
you experience. If you want to eliminate that issue, buy one of those more expensive ones that expands. That locks is rock solid, no sideway movement.

 

[markw]

Due to their physical construction and the fact the black part is plastic, there ain't no way in hell the Sewell Deadbolts could short out while plugged into a binding post.