Bad speaker or bad amp?

[highfigh]

Hello All,

I am new here and was hoping someone could help me. I have the following setup at home:
Marantz SR8012
Marantz MM8077 7 channel 150watts per channel amp

klipsch RF-7III towers
Klipsch RC-64III center
Klipsch THX-5002-L rear surrounds
Klipsch RP-502S side surrounds
Klipsch PRO-180RPC atmos speakers x4

I am running the atmos speakers off of the sr8012 and all other speakers off of the amp (mm8077)
Everything was going fine until a week or so ago when I was changing some projector settings with my Apple TV on outputting only a screen saver and no sound what so ever. I was hearing an intermittent crackle or pop for about a span of 10 mins. Then I heard what sounded like a sizzle sound. Alarmed by this I put on a YouTube video and now my left speaker sounds normal but my right speaker is barely putting out sound.

I reached out to klipsch for support since I am still under warranty. They claim the following:

Speakers can work underpowered, but they will eventually fail. I would suggest to get a more powerful amplifier. It is likely that the drivers are bad now because of underpowering, but the same thing will likely happen again if you do not provide more power to those speakers.

Today I decided to look at my audyssey settings and the distance settings look correct and are nearly identical to the left speaker. I also changed the output of the right speaker as you will see below to get it to somewhat match the sound output of the left speaker. I did this with a very low overall volume to ensure I do not clip.

Have the drivers gone bad as klipsch is saying to me because I underpowered them? Is the Marantz going bad?

Below are some screenshots of my settings which includes the output setting I changed to try to match the left front speakers output.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
View attachment 59739View attachment 59740

'Underpowered' is just another buzzword that many don't understand, even in tech support. Don't assume they know what they're talking about just because they answered the phone.

If you were nowhere near maximum power, nothing should have damaged the speaker, aside from DC coming from the amplifier's output terminals and that shouldn't happen, either.

As mentioned, connect ONE speaker to all output terminals, switching ONLY when the AVR has been turned off- never do this when it's powered on. If you hear a difference, it will likely be one of the channels has a problem, not because it torched a speaker. While it's possible, it's more likely that the amplifier has a problem, especially since you mentioned sizzling and popping.

Before you decide that I have lost my mind or that I'm stupid, let me offer this- smacking the side or top of the AVR might make it go back to normal. I have been involved with audio and AV for roughly 50 years and have seen & done it many times, most recently a couple of weeks ago when I was testing a Denon AVR. The sound worked at first, then became intermittent. I moved the speaker wires from channel to channel and nothing changed until I hit the top and it came back. I had opened it and wiggled wires and plugs before hitting it, but that didn't help.

I call this 'percussive diagnostics'.

Seriously, try it.

 

[highfigh]

If you are going to use a battery to test, use a 1.5V battery, safer.

No battery is safe if the wires remain in contact for more than it takes to tap. As usual, it's not the voltage, it's the current.

BTW- NEVER put a 9V battery in your pocket if you have metal in that pocket. I did that at work one time and I had some change in that pocket. As I walked, the plastic cover came off of the terminals and the short circuit created a whole lot of heat and it started burning my leg immediately. I immediately reached in, grabbed everything and threw it all on the shop floor. One of the others laughed and said "I've never seen you move so fast!".

 

[Rockman0]

Tough luck I’ve only had an amp channel die in a used avr the second center channel. Couldn’t place one there anyways .. how old is the avr?? I know warranty aren’t for long .

Both the amp and the receiver are a few months past three years old. I looked and Marantz says three year warranty and 5 year on reference gear which I expect neither of these are.

So looks like I will either need to pay money to get them fixed or buy replacements.

 

[everettT]

Ok so new update I swapped the speakers and as you all speculated the original right tower speaker is outputting full sound when I perform the tone test and the original left tower speaker which was fine to begin with is exhibiting the same low output.

So can I safely assume the amp has gone bad?

I also went through the tone test and got zero sound from one of my 4 atmos speakers. My sub Also did not produce a tone through the tone test. The tone test is just through the Marantz setup menu.

The four atmos speakers are powered by the SR8012. The Sub of course is self powered connected to the LFE port on the sr8012. All other speakers are receiving power from the mm8077.

Yes, unless your speaker cable is damaged, the amp appears to be the issue. The last test is to swap the preouts cables. The sub all of the sudden having issues seems odd. Did you have a power outage or lightning strike? I'm guessing the sub is fine if not.

 

[highfigh]

Both the amp and the receiver are a few months past three years old. I looked and Marantz says three year warranty and 5 year on reference gear which I expect neither of these are.

So looks like I will either need to pay money to get them fixed or buy replacements.

Do you have a cat or dog? If you didn't have one and recently added one to your family, inspect your speaker cables- small animals like to chew on wires.

 

[Rockman0]

Do you have a cat or dog? If you didn't have one and recently added one to your family, inspect your speaker cables- small animals like to chew on wires.

I do have a dog but she refuses to go upstairs and also the AV rack is in a closet with no rear access.

I decided to pull out the AV rack and do the following tests:

1. Swap the pre outs between the Left and Front speakers but leave the amp outs the same. So effectively trying to test the Marantz SR8012 signal to see if it had a bad right channel.

Result: I expected that the left speaker would output low sound but in fact there was no change. The left was normal sounding and the right was weak. Now I began to suspect the cable. Interestingly now the front left atmos speaker and the sub started outputting a tone.



2. Swap the cables on the amp between the left and the right and ensure the pre outs were properly aligned to the appropriate speakers.

Result: the issue got resolved and both speakers had strong outputs once again. This is confusing because before switching the amp cables I confirmed their connections and they were solid( you could not pull the cables out without unscrewing the nut). Further more when I reseated the cables after the switch I felt the prior connection was better seated. The front left atmos and sub were still both outputting a tone.


Conclusion: I performed all of the above testing after a soft reset of the amp and the receiver. I also tapped the top of both receiver and amp. I am now feeling confident the speaker cables are fine (they are in wall cl3 shielded blue jeans cables). I feel like the amp itself may be on the verge of a failure.

 

[everettT]

I do have a dog but she refuses to go upstairs and also the AV rack is in a closet with no rear access.

I decided to pull out the AV rack and do the following tests:

1. Swap the pre outs between the Left and Front speakers but leave the amp outs the same. So effectively trying to test the Marantz SR8012 signal to see if it had a bad right channel.

Result: I expected that the left speaker would output low sound but in fact there was no change. The left was normal sounding and the right was weak. Now I began to suspect the cable. Interestingly now the front left atmos speaker and the sub started outputting a tone.



2. Swap the cables on the amp between the left and the right and ensure the pre outs were properly aligned to the appropriate speakers.

Result: the issue got resolved and both speakers had strong outputs once again. This is confusing because before switching the amp cables I confirmed their connections and they were solid( you could not pull the cables out without unscrewing the nut). Further more when I reseated the cables after the switch I felt the prior connection was better seated. The front left atmos and sub were still both outputting a tone.


Conclusion: I performed all of the above testing after a soft reset of the amp and the receiver. I also tapped the top of both receiver and amp. I am now feeling confident the speaker cables are fine (they are in wall cl3 shielded blue jeans cables). I feel like the amp itself may be on the verge of a failure.

Or it just could be a bad cable, which I'd swap immediately as that changed things. You're starting to overthink things so slow down and be methodical.

 

[Rockman0]

Or it just could be a bad cable, which I'd swap immediately as that changed things. You're starting to overthink things so slow down and be methodical.

If it were the cable why would it work after unplugging it and plugging it into a different amp channel?

 

[highfigh]

If it were the cable why would it work after unplugging it and plugging it into a different amp channel?

What cables are you using? If the ends were soldered on, the joints can fail after many installations, or just from a bad soldering job.

 

[Rockman0]

What cables are you using? If the ends were soldered on, the joints can fail after many installations, or just from a bad soldering job.

I am using Blue Jeans BJC Ten White 10AWG CL3 shielded in wall cables. I connected the raw cable to the binding posts. I am considering buying dual screw banana plugs.

 

[highfigh]

I am using Blue Jeans BJC Ten White 10AWG CL3 shielded in wall cables. I connected the raw cable to the binding posts. I am considering buying dual screw banana plugs.

Shielded speaker cable? Why? Speaker cable isn't usually shielded. Show the cable.


Here's something that needs to be said- STOP USING BANANA PLUGS IF THE WIRES WILL BE CONNECTED AND LEFT ALONE!

They're not necessary, they won't improve the sound. They're for convenience when making frequent changes, nothing else. Two screw plugs are a royal PITA.

 

[Rockman0]

Shielded speaker cable? Why? Speaker cable isn't usually shielded. Show the cable.


Here's something that needs to be said- STOP USING BANANA PLUGS IF THE WIRES WILL BE CONNECTED AND LEFT ALONE!

They're not necessary, they won't improve the sound. They're for convenience when making frequent changes, nothing else. Two screw plugs are a royal PITA.

They are CL3 shielded because they are in wall cables.

The product is here (BJC 10 white 10AWG):

Speaker Cable at Blue Jeans Cable

Here are pics of the cable hooked up to the speaker and also hooked up to the receiver.

I am not using banana plugs at the present but I am considering using them.

 

[highfigh]

They are CL3 shielded because they are in wall cables.

The product is here (BJC 10 white 10AWG):

Speaker Cable at Blue Jeans Cable

Here are pics of the cable hooked up to the speaker and also hooked up to the receiver.

I am not using banana plugs at the present but I am considering using them.



View attachment 59780View attachment 59781

CL3 has absolutely nothing to do with shielding and those aren't shielded- you would see a braided shield, foil or a stranded wire, often called a 'drain' or 'sink'.

I would also make sure the second set of binding posts is tight.

 

[Rockman0]

From Klipsch today:


I'm not sure if the drivers are bad or the audio sounds bad because they are underpowered. The power handling is Minimun 250 Watts with a peak of 1000 Watts. You would want to be in that range. We usually recommend somewhere in the 550 - 700 Watt range is a good sweet spot. Anything less than 250 Watts causes the speaker to draw more power than the amp indents to creating dirty electrical signal that will damage speakers even at lower volumes.

We would suggest getting the proper power to those speakers and let us know if the issues persist.

 

[isolar8001]

From Klipsch today:


I'm not sure if the drivers are bad or the audio sounds bad because they are underpowered. The power handling is Minimun 250 Watts with a peak of 1000 Watts. You would want to be in that range. We usually recommend somewhere in the 550 - 700 Watt range is a good sweet spot. Anything less than 250 Watts causes the speaker to draw more power than the amp indents to creating dirty electrical signal that will damage speakers even at lower volumes.

We would suggest getting the proper power to those speakers and let us know if the issues persist.

Wow.....that's beyond ludicrous.
Maybe you should have been running them off of one of those 30 dollar Pyramid 500 watt car Eq/Amps.

 

[everettT]

From Klipsch today:


I'm not sure if the drivers are bad or the audio sounds bad because they are underpowered. The power handling is Minimun 250 Watts with a peak of 1000 Watts. You would want to be in that range. We usually recommend somewhere in the 550 - 700 Watt range is a good sweet spot. Anything less than 250 Watts causes the speaker to draw more power than the amp indents to creating dirty electrical signal that will damage speakers even at lower volumes.

We would suggest getting the proper power to those speakers and let us know if the issues persist.

Now that's funny. You should have asked them if keeping the amp turned up to 11 would be the best solution.

 

[lovinthehd]

From Klipsch today:


I'm not sure if the drivers are bad or the audio sounds bad because they are underpowered. The power handling is Minimun 250 Watts with a peak of 1000 Watts. You would want to be in that range. We usually recommend somewhere in the 550 - 700 Watt range is a good sweet spot. Anything less than 250 Watts causes the speaker to draw more power than the amp indents to creating dirty electrical signal that will damage speakers even at lower volumes.

We would suggest getting the proper power to those speakers and let us know if the issues persist.

Sounds like they've hired some of the loonies from the Klipsch fora. Is Klipsch selling amps now, too?

 

[fmw]

I haven't used tech support for audio but I have hundreds of times for computers. I almost never get a solution. I tend to know more than the tech supporters. I end up having to solve the problems with research and experience. Sounds like tech support for audio is in the same boat.

This underpowered warning has been around for a long time. The idea is that, if you have a low power amplifier, you may be running it up into clipping and the distorted signal will harm your speakers. It is possible but normally with a higher powered amplifier not a very low powered one.

Clipping is very easy to hear and unpleasant. If your amp is driven into clipping turn it down immediately. If it is a low powered amp, say 10 watts, invest in a stronger one. If it is a high powered amp, say 100 watts, then invest in ear plugs because you may damage your hearing before damaging your tweeters. But give a strong amplifier enough power and you can generate enough heat to blow a tweeter or two. It rarely happens given the unpleasant sound of a clipped signal.