B&W...vs...Axiom???

timoteo

timoteo

Audioholic General
I am considering a pair of dipole surrounds.
Which would u guys recommend between the B&W DS3's & the Axiom QS8's?
Any feedback would be appreciated!!
 
P

pearsall001

Full Audioholic
Order the Axiom's (30 day in home trial), & get a pair of the B&W's home at the same time for an A/B listening comparison. Keep the pair that sounds best to you & send the others back. It'll cost you a few bucks but it's well worth it in the end. Nothing like hearing with your own ears.
 
F

fredk

Audioholic General
I'm very happy with my QS8s, but have never listened to the B&Ws. Whats the realative cost of the two options?
 
Tomorrow

Tomorrow

Audioholic Ninja
I honestly think you can do better. The F3 for the B&W is 85 Hz, and 95 Hz for the Axioms. Unless you have a receiver/prepro that allows separate subwoofer crossover for the surrounds, I'd look for something with more extension. I prefer more bottom end to the surrounds.

Keep in mind, those QS8's need to be wall mounted or used on Axiom's own stands (because of the driver on the bottom).

What are your mains and center?
 
agarwalro

agarwalro

Audioholic Ninja
I honestly think you can do better. The F3 for the B&W is 85 Hz, and 95 Hz for the Axioms. Unless you have a receiver/prepro that allows separate subwoofer crossover for the surrounds, I'd look for something with more extension. I prefer more bottom end to the surrounds.
Not to take away from your point, but, I have been using a crossover of 80Hz and they do just fine even at high volume. (tested and set via House of Flying Daggers - Drum Dance scene)
Keep in mind, those QS8's need to be wall mounted or used on Axiom's own stands (because of the driver on the bottom).
Now this is huge. Chicklet for this nugget.
 
F

fredk

Audioholic General
How much bottom end do you really need in surrounds? I guess its a trade-off between more extension and the exceptional sound dispersion of the QS8.
 
Tomorrow

Tomorrow

Audioholic Ninja
How much bottom end do you really need in surrounds? I guess its a trade-off between more extension and the exceptional sound dispersion of the QS8.
The issue is the subwoofer crossover in an HT. When the crossover gets over 80, and it should be for either of these speakers, then the bass becomes localizable. The net result is a diminishing of the surround presentation. To cross over lower, a gap in the system frequency response will result.

But it may sound great...and I'm sure that the QS8 (and the B&W) are fine dipole speakers. I'm still interested in what the OP's mains/center are, as well as his front end equipment. It could make a difference.
 
B

Boerd

Full Audioholic
I am considering a pair of dipole surrounds.
Which would u guys recommend between the B&W DS3's & the Axiom QS8's?
Any feedback would be appreciated!!
Try to get both in your room and do an A/B - and don't listen what others say, it is you and your hard-earned cash.
Both companies are good though I'd preffer Axiom; I have a problem with companies selling 20k$ PASSIVE crossover speakers like B&W.
But then again, don't listen to me - just try both speakers or at least listen to them somewhere.
 
the grunt

the grunt

Audioholic
I A/B compared the Axiom QS8s in 5.1 to a friends B&W DS7s (not the DS3s) in 7.1 in a friends HT and it was no contest. The Axioms substantially better at producing both ambient surround effects and directional queues.

However, as Tomorrow is asking what mains and center are you matching these with. If you already have B&Ws up front you might want to stick with the matching B&W surrounds if you are sensitive to sonic differences between speakers. My friend from above liked the QS8s enough that he considered replacing his B&W surrounds with them so we hooked them into his system. Although both Axiom and B&W are considered “detailed” they sounded different enough with music that we both agreed he should stick with the B&W surrounds.

Also, the QS8s are not that hard to place. They only need about 3-4 inches between the up/down firing driver and the closest surface. People have done this with painted or finished blocks of wood. Using ceiling mounting brackets and even DIY stands (just cut a hole in it for the bottom driver. The only issue with stands is the QS8s are heavy little suckers and the stand will be top heavy if not weighted. I know, I pulled one over while stringing a tape measurer from it (no damage luckily).

However, like Boerd said try both and keep the ones that you like best. Axiom’s web site estimates 30USD to ship back a pair of surrounds and hopefully you can find some B&Ws locally.

Another option that’s gotten some positive comments at a fraction of the cost of the Axioms and B&W are Emotive ERD-1s but I think they only come in black.

Cheers,
Dean
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
The issue is the subwoofer crossover in an HT. When the crossover gets over 80, and it should be for either of these speakers, then the bass becomes localizable. The net result is a diminishing of the surround presentation. To cross over lower, a gap in the system frequency response will result.

But it may sound great...and I'm sure that the QS8 (and the B&W) are fine dipole speakers. I'm still interested in what the OP's mains/center are, as well as his front end equipment. It could make a difference.
The Crossover isn't a brick wall, there will still be plenty going on at 90Hz for there to be no noticeable bass dip.

SheepStar
 
A

albuerne

Audiophyte
Agarwalro -

I noticed that your in my neck of the woods (Seattle) and have all the Axioms I'm considering. Would it be possible to take a listen sometime? I've shortlisted my floors to B&W CM7, Paradigm Studio 60 v5 and the Axiom M60. I'll bring you over your favorite 6 pack to help ease the pain. =)

I've been dying to listen to the Axioms and see if they live up to all the good talk they have received.

Thank you.
 
R

Robof83

Audioholic
First and foremost, try to listen to both. If that's not possible I would probably say the Axioms would be your best bet. If I were you, I would also take a look at Aperion. They are another ID company with comparable price/performance to Axiom. Some even say Aperion is slightly better though I think it may have to do more with personal taste.
 
R

rurounitkenshin

Audiophyte
another option

Not to confuse the issue for you, but one other speaker you may want to try given the deal available on it right now at Vanns is the Mirage OMD-R surround speaker. Originally listed for 1K each but now you can get them for $300.
I currently have a set in my one of my home theater set-ups and they are one of the best surrounds I have ever heard. Amazing combination of expansive sound and great localization when required. I've been really impressed with them.
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
Agarwalro -

I noticed that your in my neck of the woods (Seattle) and have all the Axioms I'm considering. Would it be possible to take a listen sometime? I've shortlisted my floors to B&W CM7, Paradigm Studio 60 v5 and the Axiom M60. I'll bring you over your favorite 6 pack to help ease the pain. =)

I've been dying to listen to the Axioms and see if they live up to all the good talk they have received.

Thank you.
By way of highest quality drivers, the CM7 is most certainly the winner. However, it's crossover is not ideal. The cabinet is of pretty good quality, but can be improved with some modifications. :)

I would go CM7, then later remove the passive xovers and use an active crossover system for it - that would result in one superb speaker, as the crossover is the main limitation in the CM7. The CM7 has a very high grade tweeter and extremely high grade mid-range driver.

Heck, if I was local to you, I would gladly measure the CM7 drivers for you and program a DCX2496 active crossover for you. But I don't seem to be local to anyone that could use my help! Argh....

I live in central Virginia; near Lynchburg.

-Chris
 
F

fredk

Audioholic General
By way of highest quality drivers, the CM7 is most certainly the winner.
Have you ever measured Axiom's drivers Chris?
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
Have you ever measured Axiom's drivers Chris?
No. But Soundstage has provided many detailed measurements of many Axiom speakers.

The mid-range on the CM7 is unique; and extremely high grade - far more so than the rest of the speaker.... the CM7 uses the B&W FST midrange; the same mid-range design used on their 802D and other top end speaker systems. The FST has a unique mode of operation known as *bending mode driver operation as well as using high quality low distortion motor system.

*Bending mode operation is where a driver's break up band is not left to random incident. Most drivers have to keep the break up band far away from the bandwidth the driver is used within. That is, they place the crossover far below the point where break up begins, because break up is non-controlled scenario leading to massive audible problems. With a bending mode driver, the driver is expressly designed to have a huge damping ability where break up begins - effectively negating the negative effects from the break up; this leads to an interesting effect when pulled off right. It allows the driver to have dynamic radiation surface area; as frequency increases, the effective radiation area of the driver reduces, allowing for much wider dispersion. It is a rare operational mode as it typically requires extreme quality control to get consistent characteristics for a mass produced item in most cases. Another example of a bending mode driver is the Manger transducer.

-Chris
 
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