B&W, Revel, & RBH

[gene]

The requirement for my next speakers is that they have to go down to 20Hz @ -3dB.

You better specify at what SPL level you expect that otherwise that spec is useless.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You better specify at what SPL level you expect that otherwise that spec is useless.

Sorry, I meant 20Hz -3db @ 90dB w/m without the aid of any external subwoofers in 2.0 ch pure direct.

Otherwise, I might as well get some bookshelf speakers + subs...not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Do you know what Einstein said about people repeating the same experiment, yet expecting different results?

cheers,

AJ

No, really, what did Einstein say?

Denial?

Well, guys, my first audition of the B&W 800D was over a year ago.

I shared my opinion of them and got lynched.

Perhaps something was wrong, right? It must have been the room acoustics or speaker placement or electronics? Or just simply me.

I can say with absolutely confidence now that I have auditioned the B&W 803D, 802D, and 800D for the last time. These speakes are definitely not for me and I have completely ruled them out.

Today I spent another full hour listening to the 800D with the same music from yesterday.

I thought the midrange and trebles were better and more open than the 802D & 803D, and the bass was also better.

Although the 800Ds were good, I was not impressed with them either.

I don't have any fancy words to add.

I think live drums and most instruments were represented fine. But for my taste, although I like tight bass just like the next guy, I prefer my drum/bass to sound "better" than live.

I want bass that is tight, not boomy, but at the same time will hit me with such powerful force that my bones and teeth will feel them. In this regards, the 800D cannot deliver.

So I guess if I like music to sound more like "live drums", then the B&W 800D will do, but I can get that kind of music from much less expensive speakers.

 

[swspiers]

20 to 20,000 hz @ 90 dB is quite a requirement. I hope you're willing to audition for a while before committing.

Any Audio Clubs where you live? They are a good resource for high-end experience.

I myself am having Ohm F's rebuilt by HHR (Dale Harder), which effectively convert them to their TLS-I series Walsh driver. Really hard to audition this kind of speaker though. I was lucky enough to be given Ohm F's after I fell in love with Ohm Micro Walsh Talls. After experiencing what a true Walsh driver can do, I'm betting that an updated Walsh will once again exceed expectations

Used may be the way to go too...

-s

 

[gene]

Sorry, I meant 20Hz -3db @ 90dB w/m without the aid of any external subwoofers in 2.0 ch pure direct.

At what distance? the listening space or 1 meter?

That's pretty easy for any of these speakers to hit (assuming 1 meter), especially the RBH T30s.

Before considering dropping $15k+ on any of these speakers, you should consider beefing up your amp. While the Denon 5308 is a very good receiver, you should really be setting up a 2CH rig if you want to do 2CH in a separate room. It seems crazy to use an AVR for this purpose!

FYI back in 2007 during the Audioholics SOTU event, RBH had a pair of T2/SERs setup in one demo room. Dolbly brought the B&W 802Ds for their demo. We took a poll of attendees who thought the best sound was and:

• RBH was 1st place
• B&W was 2nd place
• Emo and Axiom were pretty much tied for 3rd

See the Video Overview of that show.

Sample size was about 60 as not everyone filled out our form. Of course none of these rooms were ideal acoustically and everyone was playing different reference material....Dolby definitely had the best source material since AIX records was there and did a special 7.1 discrete mix, the first of its kind which debuted at our show!

 

[GlocksRock]

I too was wondering why an AVR for a 2 ch. setup, why not go with a dedicated preamp and amplifier.

 

[bandphan]

Two of these should work

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Two of these should work

Now that is a MASTERPIECE right there through and through.

What a beauty!

 

[bandphan]

almost 320# for a stereo pair

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Before considering dropping $15k+ on any of these speakers, you should consider beefing up your amp. While the Denon 5308 is a very good receiver, you should really be setting up a 2CH rig if you want to do 2CH in a separate room. It seems crazy to use an AVR for this purpose!

Actually my amps are the ATI AT3002 & AT3005, which are 300+ WPC @ 8ohms & 600+ WPC @ 4 ohms.

They are no 1,200W McIntosh masterpiece, but they're no whimps.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I too was wondering why an AVR for a 2 ch. setup, why not go with a dedicated preamp and amplifier.

It would be the AVP-A1HDCI pre-pro + AT3002 amp.

The AVR-5308 would go with the AT3005 amp.

You guys know how crazy I am with aesthetics, symmetry, and redundancy - as long as I can afford it.

 

[adk highlander]

It would be the AVP-A1HDCI pre-pro + AT3002 amp.

The AVR-5308 would go with the AT3005 amp.

You guys know how crazy I am with aesthetics, symmetry, and redundancy - as long as I can afford it.

No way! You've got to go with the 5308/3002 combo for the 2 channel and the AVP/3005 for the theater. The AVP must be in the theater.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

RBH T2 was 1st place
B&W 802D was 2nd place

No surprise from me.

And if they had brought the 800D, the results would have been the same.

The 800D *might* have sounded (very subjectively) very slightly better than the 802D, but I don't think I could tell the difference between the 800 vs 802 in a double-blinded test.

So if you love B&W, you should just get the 802D.

BTW, I just called the RBH dealer and set up an appointment for next Tuesday.

 

[bandphan]

http://www.salksound.com/soundscape 12 specifications.htm

 

[AJinFLA]

No, really, what did Einstein say?
Denial?

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Like listening to low-mid sensitivity vertically decorrelated direct radiator on a flat baffle monopolar box speakers....and expecting to hear something of substance different in room, that you haven't heard for 30+ yrs.

Have fun while doing so. When you reach the end of the dead end road, then go listen to an Orion 3.1, a GedLee Summa and an AudioKinesis Dream Maker.
Don't make me have to come up to KC .

cheers,

AJ

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

No way! You've got to go with the 5308/3002 combo for the 2 channel and the AVP/3005 for the theater. The AVP must be in the theater.

What? Why?

I thought for movies, we don't need as much exquisite details, clarity, definition, and purity compared to critical music listening?

The AVP-A1 is a fully balanced dual differential Class A preamp at heart. It will kick the Mark Levinson preamp's a$$.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

http://www.salksound.com/soundscape 12 specifications.htm

After just auditioning the B&W 800D, I would have to say that the Salk SoundScape resembles it in looks.

Too bad I can't audition the Soundscape 12.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Like listening to low-mid sensitivity vertically decorrelated direct radiator on a flat baffle monopolar box speakers....and expecting to hear something of substance different in room, that you haven't heard for 30+ yrs.

Have fun while doing so. When you reach the end of the dead end road, then go listen to an Orion 3.1, a GedLee Summa and an AudioKinesis Dream Maker.
Don't make me have to come up to KC .

cheers,

AJ

You need to audition the BP7000SC and let me know just how much better are those other speakers!

I'll check those speakers out online.

 

[sholling]

After just auditioning the B&W 800D, I would have to say that the Salk SoundScape resembles it in looks.

Too bad I can't audition the Soundscape 12.

Road trip.

 

[bandphan]

After just auditioning the B&W 800D, I would have to say that the Salk SoundScape resembles it in looks.

Too bad I can't audition the Soundscape 12.

but completely different in sound If you are as crazy as self described, at trip to Michigan wouldn't be far fetched. And I'm sure you're a puddle jumper away from the land of 10k lakes to hear Warp's setup. Beer, cheese, and subs Anechoic specs are awesome and the free air mid appeals to your room sense...... Give Jim a chance