B&W Nautilus 805 vs 805S

G

gus6464

Audioholic Samurai
I was wondering how the newer 805S compares to the older Nautilus model in terms of cabinet resonance and design. From the stereophile measurements the N805 had a very inert cabinet but I can't seem to find any measurements of the 805S to compare. The N805 also measured pretty flat as well.
 
G

gus6464

Audioholic Samurai
isnt the "s" just the upgraded tiger eye finish?
I thought it had an upgraded tweeter and woofer as well? The cabinets definitely look the same but I was wondering if there was anything different in crossover design or cabinets. When I auditioned the 805S they were extremely bass light but had superb separation and crystal clear mids and highs. I found the main difference between the 805S and 802D to be in the bass department and top end was a lot smoother with the diamond tweeter. I auditioned the 805S in an extremely treated room so I could see the speaker being bright in my living room or any non-treated room for that matter.
 
avaserfi

avaserfi

Audioholic Ninja
Ruler flat frequency responses have been shown [through various credible research studies] to be perceived as not tonally accurate in most [not all] source material. Rather a gradual frequency roll off is found to be perceived as tonally accurate - an example is shown below.

 
G

gus6464

Audioholic Samurai
I am mostly interested in cabinet resonance than actual measurements since FR could be EQ'd.
 
avaserfi

avaserfi

Audioholic Ninja
I am mostly interested in cabinet resonance than actual measurements since FR could be EQ'd.
As far as I am aware all the recent incarnations of the Nautilus series speakers have specially constructed cabinets that will not physically allow for audible resonance.

As far as equalizing frequency response goes: If one wants the full ability to adjust tonality of a loudspeaker it would be ideal to start with a loudspeaker containing a ruler flat response and adjust from there rather than adjusting with present anomalies.
 
avaserfi

avaserfi

Audioholic Ninja
As far as I am aware all the recent incarnations of the Nautilus series speakers have specially constructed cabinets that will not physically allow for audible resonance.

As far as equalizing frequency response goes: If one wants the full ability to adjust tonality of a loudspeaker it would be ideal to start with a loudspeaker containing a ruler flat response and adjust from there rather than adjusting with present anomalies.
I have been looking a little more. It seems the Nautilus series speakers are typically less resonant than most designs, but it seems many [including the 805] do have audible resonances.

Stereophile measurements can be found here. Please ignore their analysis of resonance audibility as it does not correlate with credibly derived thresholds.
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
This has little to do with your question, BUT, there were a couple of threads on the Klipsch forums:

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/106444.aspx
http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/106257.aspx

The new Palladium P-38F was very favorably compared over the 802D in a blind listening test. The testing setup etc. can be found in those links. Obviously I'm biased, but worth your time to read.
I will point out that the direct side-by-side proximity of the large side panel of the Palladium next to the wide dispersion top mounted B&W tweeter is bound to have caused substantial response issues with that tweeter.

I am curious of the room acoustics in the test. The Pallodium obviously has horn loaded tweeter system, which will vastly decrease the room interaction of this frequency range. If the room acoustics were excellent, then the directional tweeter would be a negative asset, but if the room acoustics were less than favorable, the directional tweeter would be beneficial, and the free dispersion tweeter would be a negative asset.

I just thought it would be useful to point out these often overlooked details.

-Chris
 
D

D.R. Payne

Audioholic
I have been in this room, in my humble opinion it is over-treated. Its a little too dead sounding, too much absorption and not enough dispersion.

Are you saying that tweet has a 180deg dispersion pattern?
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
I have been in this room, in my humble opinion it is over-treated. Its a little too dead sounding, too much absorption and not enough dispersion.
If you mean the room was treated with vastly too many broad band absorption devices, then this definitely skew the results. For one, this would decrease the audibility of cabinet resonances(a particular strong point of the 802D), masking some of the resonance of the more resonant speaker(likely the Pallodium). With most speakers, you also want to use at least a portion of the off axis sound to reflect off of partial boundaries or diffusers; this enhances the depth/perception of timbre in recordings and expands the sound stage.

Are you saying that tweet has a 180deg dispersion pattern?
At about 7-8Khz and under, the tweeter is actually omnipolar, due to the small housing and the relative wavelengths. Above this point, the tweeter will start to increase in directionality, with very limited dispersion occurring by 12-13kHz.
 
D

D.R. Payne

Audioholic
Yes, too many broad absorption devices. They are not thick enough to absorb much below 400hz is my guess, but clearly too much in the mid/high range. Think LEDE without the LE. I mean NO insult to anyone at Klipsch, but some diffusion is a good thing for listening rooms, be it from QEDs or just a wall!

All right, I hear what you're saying about the tweeter, I don't know that much about the drivers of the 802D, but I'm wondering what you are basing the palladium being the "more resonant" speaker? Or is this a guess? Based on the lectures of the owner of one of our local hi-fi shops (not an overbearing elitist looser like so many) the lack of cabinet resonance in the 802x is due to the excellent cabinet design: the materials are stiff and the curvature means no standing waves inside the cabinet. The Palladium speakers' boat-tail and tapered top design provide the same benefits of no parallel surfaces, and the materials are something like 3 layers of MDF, with extra "ribs" like a boat skeleton reinforcing the cabinet. I doubt they are any more resonant than the 802x, and the P-38F come in at an extremely similar price point.

Interesting observations.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
Hmmm...
I should have put a pointless thread-surrection clause in the AH Drinking game.

Apologies for the oversight.

Everybody, take a drink anyway! :D
 
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