B&W matrix 800 series vs. RBH signature series

[AD_LIB]

So i presently have 2 B&W matrix 805s an HTM and a pair of CDS6 surround speakers. I am moving into a new place and have a chance to re-do my home-theater setup. I have been looking at all of the glowing reviews of the RBH signature series and wondering if it might be a better speaker than my old 800s. I know speakers are very subjective but there is definatly some stratification in speaker performance, can anyone give me some suggestions as far as if this would be a good upgrade? I'm thinking of going with the RBH 661SEs up front and the 41SEs in the back.

thanks

-BA

 

[AMG_Roadster]

I have not heard the RBH speakers. I am in the process of shopping for new speakers myself and went to listen to the B&W's, heard the 803S & 803D, the 703's, their HT line, and a couple of their other big speakers. I have to say that I was underwhelmed. They just did not think their sound justified anywhere near their price. Between the 803D's and a pair of Focal 918's which are less than half the price I would take the 918's. IMO there are a number of better speakers out there for the same price or less than the B&W's.

 

[AD_LIB]

no one else has any advice or exp. ...even suggestions as to anything else to consider?

 

[AMG_Roadster]

I am going through the same thing you are right now. I have listened to a large number of speakers and am continuing to look.

I don't think you can go wrong with the Focal's. Check them out. I was pretty impressed with all of their speakers I heard.

What is your budget? How big of a room do you have? Are you looking for just a pair of speakers? What is your budget?

The best advice I have right now is to listen to a bunch of speakers with music you are very familar with.

This is the thread I started. http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21651

It may help you out.

 

[freeflap]

i think you will find that your taste in speakers change over time. your ear will become more critical and you will notice more the differences. B&W are very neutral speakers. they are not bright and exciting or smooth and mellow. they are just plain flat neutral: which is initially boring, but overtime, you will notice that neutral is correct.

I haven't heard the RBH, but according to gene and clint, they are very neutral as well. either one i think you will be happy with

 

[PENG]

i think you will find that your taste in speakers change over time. your ear will become more critical and you will notice more the differences. B&W are very neutral speakers. they are not bright and exciting or smooth and mellow. they are just plain flat neutral: which is initially boring, but overtime, you will notice that neutral is correct.
I

I also think that it may take a while for most people to appreciate neutral speakers, but you can be impressed by the 804, 803S/D, 802D if you listen to some Audiophile classical music CDs. You get a fuller range of instruments, from bass drums, tympani, double bass, to brass and strings. I listened to a pair of 802D recently; its ability to reproduce the sound of bass drums and violins accurately was amazing.

 

[AD_LIB]

I agree that the B&Ws are amaizingly accurate and neutral...thus why they have been in my setup for 11 years The newer B&W series are REALLY nice but SO expensive Not sure about bang for buck on B&W anymore. I'm thinking of bringing my 805s along when i go demo the RBHs so i can do an A-B comapre. I'm hoping the dealer will be cool about it. I just wish more people had exp. with the RBHs, it seems like its a rare setup. All the reviews are really really good so I'm hoping I will be impressed.

 

[shamus]

I am currently upgrading my speakers now to RBH.... I just recently purchased the 661ser for the front. I think they sound great. I hear things I have never heard before and occasionally I have to double check that I dont have 6ch stereo engaged because I swear I hear things coming from behind me (in stereo mode).... I previously had the cambridge newton t500 for the front L/R. There is no comparison. I also demoed a pair of dynaudio focus which doing an A/B comparison with the newtons could not tell a difference. I have never heard the B&W,s before...sorry. I would say to make sure to demo the RBH, they are not for everyone. They will make your good recordings sound fantastic but your average and poor recordings sound like they were recorded in a garage. They are truely revealing!!!! I cant wait till I can upgrade to a better receiver or seperates....they should only sound better(I know im not giving them the power they deserve). Dont base your decision on me I AM NOT AN EXPERT!!!! Like i said the newtons were the extent of my high end gear, but for the first time in my music listening experience I dont feel like im missing something. I know its hard to track these speakers down, but do yourself a favor and give em a demo.

 

[Wabbit_Swayer]

I have not heard the B&W's, so take it for what its worth...

But I would say take the gamble and go for the RBH I have a pair of 661-SE's in Walnut Burl up front, and I love them. You'll definately get more sound for your money, IMO.

 

[BBrunner]

I agree that the B&Ws are amaizingly accurate and neutral...thus why they have been in my setup for 11 years The newer B&W series are REALLY nice but SO expensive Not sure about bang for buck on B&W anymore. I'm thinking of bringing my 805s along when i go demo the RBHs so i can do an A-B comapre. I'm hoping the dealer will be cool about it. I just wish more people had exp. with the RBHs, it seems like its a rare setup. All the reviews are really really good so I'm hoping I will be impressed.

This is a fantastic idea. If the dealer wants your money (which they all do), he should have no problem with you bringing in your speakers to compare. Just be sure to NOT let him hook up the speakers as he may purposefully wire them out of phase to make his selection sound better. This happened to a gentleman on the AVS Forum, but luckily he caught it. Also try to listen as close to level matched as possible. A couple of dB louder can be perceived as a more appealing sound thus making you think the other speaker is "better." As already stated, you really need to compare the speakers on your own. Our opinions can help, but they should only be taken as suggestions. Your ears are the only judge(s) that matter. Good luck man!

 

[shamus]

This is a fantastic idea. If the dealer wants your money (which they all do), he should have no problem with you bringing in your speakers to compare. Just be sure to NOT let him hook up the speakers as he may purposefully wire them out of phase to make his selection sound better. This happened to a gentleman on the AVS Forum, but luckily he caught it. Also try to listen as close to level matched as possible. A couple of dB louder can be perceived as a more appealing sound thus making you think the other speaker is "better." As already stated, you really need to compare the speakers on your own. Our opinions can help, but they should only be taken as suggestions. Your ears are the only judge(s) that matter. Good luck man!

Even better..... see if you can take the rbh's home for a couple days in YOUR enviroment.

 

[AD_LIB]

just an update i found a dealer in So cal here (creative home cinema) and Justin was nice enough to bring over the 661s and the 41se for me to demo in my livingroom. I am very impressed with these speakers. For the money they are REALLY hard to beat. I had my fiance listen to them A/B with my old 805s and she noticed a definate difference in the sound quality from the RBHs. She said they sounded fuller and more correct which is a big deal cause she is a very typical wife in so much as she is more interested in how it looks. She wasnt big on the asthetics but they are big black boxes...i picked up some nice Alphason stands http://www.racksandstands.com/Alphason-Designs-AG60-S-7AP1009.html so that helped appease her enough to let me put them in the living room . I havent had a ton of time to sit and enjoy my new purchase yet, but the time i have spent has been very pleasant...I've been doing alot of listening to my DVD-A's WOW do they sound AWESOME. Would I say that the RBHs are a huge leap over the 805s? No but they are a definate step up in my opinion. The newer 805s were also stellar and very close to the RBHs but at almost triple the price DEFINATLY not worth the cash. If you are in the market for a good speaker that wont break the bank I recommend giving these a listen, it will be worth your time.

 

[AdrianMills]

just an update i found a dealer in So cal here (creative home cinema) and Justin was nice enough to bring over the 661s and the 41se for me to demo in my livingroom. I am very impressed with these speakers. For the money they are REALLY hard to beat. I had my fiance listen to them A/B with my old 805s and she noticed a definate difference in the sound quality from the RBHs. She said they sounded fuller and more correct which is a big deal cause she is a very typical wife in so much as she is more interested in how it looks. She wasnt big on the asthetics but they are big black boxes...i picked up some nice Alphason stands http://www.racksandstands.com/Alphason-Designs-AG60-S-7AP1009.html so that helped appease her enough to let me put them in the living room . I havent had a ton of time to sit and enjoy my new purchase yet, but the time i have spent has been very pleasant...I've been doing alot of listening to my DVD-A's WOW do they sound AWESOME. Would I say that the RBHs are a huge leap over the 805s? No but they are a definate step up in my opinion. The newer 805s were also stellar and very close to the RBHs but at almost triple the price DEFINATLY not worth the cash. If you are in the market for a good speaker that wont break the bank I recommend giving these a listen, it will be worth your time.

Good to hear you've got something you're happy with.

I was set on getting Kef IQ's until I heard the B&W 703's which blew me away but were 2x the cost... Were they 2x as good? No, not really, but I really liked them and the way they looked so I decided to increase my budget. I then made the mistake of auditioning the 804S which are 50% more again over the 703... 50% better? Not a chance, but a little especially in the higher frequencies, yes, certainly not enough to justify the additional cost though... But I really liked their aesthetics and damn, carbon fibre bass woofers! So I ordered them before I was tempted to audition the 802D’s.

And for those of you out there with the luxury of a separate HT or listening room who say that aesthetics don't matter it’s all about the sound, well bully for you but those of us that like nice furniture in our living rooms will continue to pay the extra price for aesthetics.

After saving this I realized that maybe I didn't I make myself very clear...

Um, once you've reached a certain level, sometimes the cost of audio equipment is not really about the differences in sound. Look at the RBH and 805S, I haven't compared them but I believe your comparison and, for arguments sake, even if you had thought the 805S were a smidgen better that really wouldn't justify a factor of 3 increase in cost over the RBH. But...
There's that really cool look to the 805 that to some is worth the extra.

 

[rolyasm]

I stopped by RBH headquarters yesterday. Nice place. Anyway, I listened to the 661's and loved them. Last fall I was in the market for speakers, or so I thought, and listened to B&W and a few others. Now this is just my opinion, but the towers I listened to from B&W were overpriced. Sure they sounded great, but so did the towers from Energy. For the price vs. sound difference, I couldn't justify the B&W. Even if price weren't an object, I wouldn't have chosen the B&W over the Energy I listened to. Now, this is purely from a HT setup. Wasn't a big fan of stereo music (until I heard the T1's yesterday). I ran out of funds and my HT wasn't done yet, so I just made my list. B&W wasn't on there. I am back in the market and RBH is definitely on my short list. If you can afford the T1, do it. OMG. The 661's were very similar, just not as full or detailed. Talk about amazing. B-stock will help out if you can find it.

 

[Audioholics]

There's that really cool look to the 805 that to some is worth the extra.

Looks certainly do matter. Great sounding speakers are a must, but add in some flair and make the speakers look like a piece of furniture and you've got a truly compelling product.

 

[silversurfer]

I really like the sound of the B&W 805S, but I also think it is priced too high, and some other brands are just as much to my liking, but cost less.

Having read a lot of RBH, I would love to sample their speakers. Might have to give them a call and look for a dealer in my area.

 

[AdrianMills]

Looks certainly do matter. Great sounding speakers are a must, but add in some flair and make the speakers look like a piece of furniture and you've got a truly compelling product.

I'm glad you agree.

Of course if it's a choice between good sound/ugly looks and awful sound/good looks it's probably wise to get the former and try to make them as unobtrusive as possible.

I haven't seen many speakers out there that can surpass the B&W's for looks (yes, a very subjective statement I know and this was truly reinforced by the fact that people actually like the look of those Salk's ).

But yes, I'll be the first to admit that although the higher end B&W's are stunning speakers in looks, build and in sound quality they are extremely expensive and my guess is that those very expensive "advanced technologies" that they use like the carbon fibre woofers and diamond tweeters, make a difference that is far from audible outside of an anechoic chamber, if at all. I’ve even heard somewhere that the Kevlar midrange is more of a marketing ploy forced onto the speaker engineers; apparently the engineers preferred and had better results with aluminium (this has to be taken with a pinch of salt though as I do not have a reliable first hand source).

Well, thankfully perceptual bias exists, that way we can buy those gorgeous looking speakers that aren’t quite up to par in the sound department and be none the wiser…

 

[Audioholics]

Kevlar is certainly "cool" looking but it's not particularly stiff... and you want a loudspeaker driver to be very stiff. I'm not broadbrushing the line or anyone who chooses to use Kevlar, but woven Kevlar, like many other materials, has some issues. I'm sure this point can be argued.

Take aluminum and don't properly coat it - and you get ringing... but if done right it's a very good (and inexpensive) driver material.

 

[AD_LIB]

I think the fact that I was able to buy my entire speaker rig for what the 805s and HTM would have cost me swayed me towards neglecting asthetics. If the sound quality was an issue I think I would have ben a bit more hesitant...but really the RBH and the 805s are to my perception in exactly the same league from an audio standpoint and therin lies the issue. Plus the fact that you can get the RBH is custom finishes adds a lot as well. I chose the black because most of my furnature is in that blackish esspesso finsh and none of the wood veneers seemed a close match to that. I think at the end of the day if cost was not an issue I would have been looking at the much higher end B&W D series or the REVEL ultima series (my parents have the REVELS in their setup and its superb). Given my budget though those speakers were just out of the question. Also at that price point you have to start thinking about the RBH T series....so its all relative I guess. I stand by what I said before though bang for the buck on the RBH its just increddible what you get.

 

[AdrianMills]

I think the fact that I was able to buy my entire speaker rig for what the 805s and HTM would have cost me swayed me towards neglecting asthetics.

Yes, I've been tossing and turning over this - I could have bought an entire 5.1 system consisting of Kef IQ's and a SVS 12plus for a little less than the price of just the 804S L&R. When it's put in terms like that it really is very shocking and I probably wouldn’t have done it if I hadn't had a fairly large chunk of spare cash lying around at the time.