B&W 802d

[haraldo]

I'm X'ing mine @ 80Hz.

BTW, just to throw it out there, the b-stock (full manufacturer warranty) Lexicon ZX7-Z (300WPC x 7Ch amp) is $3,900 and Mark Levinson No531H (300W monoblock) is $2,800.

Sound very high for such bass capable speakers, did you try with lover x-overs too?

 

[haraldo]

I would like to think about he Daniel Hertz M5

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Sound very high for such bass capable speakers, did you try with lover x-overs too?

Yeah, I tried from 40Hz to about 150Hz. I prefer more bass from my subs.

 

[flyboylr45]

Well, I get the 452 and 2500 on the 30th!!!!!! Now my upgrades should be complete for many, many, many years.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Even though Levinson split up with Kim Cattrall (deutsche) and sold out to Harman, Levinson amps are probably still better sounding than McIntosh.

Levinson didn't sell out to Harman, he sold out to a company called Madrigal Audio Laboratories, and later Madrigal was acquired by Harman. If you're going to be obnoxious at least get your facts straight.

 

[TheStalker]

Levinson didn't sell out to Harman, he sold out to a company called Madrigal Audio Laboratories, and later Madrigal was acquired by Harman. If you're going to be obnoxious at least get your facts straight.

Same difference brew.

 

[monkish54]

Yeah, I tried from 40Hz to about 150Hz. I prefer more bass from my subs.

I agree.

I used REW to determine that I can't locate bass until about 80hz. I have the HPF/LPF on my receiver set to 100hz because even then it's hard to localize. With a pure 100hz tone I can localize the bass to somewhere in the front stage. So far, I haven't been able to localize the subwoofers even with a 100hz tone. With real content I have never noticed from where the deep bass is coming. I've watched several movies with my subwoofers in place and my xo set to 100hz and I have not had an issue yet. Nor have any of my fellow movie watchers or music listeners.

My W15GTI MKII's are much better suited to play loud bass tones than my Phil 2's. The more work I can take away from the SB the better.

 

[haraldo]

Crossing the 802d's @ 80Hz is very high, and it probably means the low-end bass of these not so cheap speakers are not at the level you would expect from them?

With this setup, is there any reason at all to prefer the 802d before the 803d or 804d?, in practice then the only difference that would be audible comes from the better design of the midrange cabinet in 802d.... and looks of course as you pinted out before ....

If using sub's and crossing so high (and not using speakers full range) I would even think of 805d as a very descent option
You could even get the 805 Maserati Edition plus a trip to Bahamas, and still have some pocket-change left, as an option to 802d


These are B&W's even I would want to have in my house

 

[Jeepers]

You could even get the 805 Maserati Edition plus a trip to Bahamas, and still have some pocket-change left, as an option to 802d

Can you share with us the price of the 805 Maserati Edition ?

 

[haraldo]

Can you share with us the price of the 805 Maserati Edition ?

Over here it's NOK 73.000, which is USD 11.850, so it's certainly not cheap speakers

 

[Jeepers]

Over here it's NOK 73.000, which is USD 11.850, so it's certainly not cheap speakers

Thanks. I heard something similar where I live so with that price you won't have pocket money left after your trip to the Bahama's.

 

[haraldo]

Thanks. I heard something similar where I live so with that price you won't have pocket money left after your trip to the Bahama's.

805d is much better value though, NOK 34.800 = USD 5.600

 

[Irvrobinson]

I agree.

I used REW to determine that I can't locate bass until about 80hz. I have the HPF/LPF on my receiver set to 100hz because even then it's hard to localize. With a pure 100hz tone I can localize the bass to somewhere in the front stage. So far, I haven't been able to localize the subwoofers even with a 100hz tone. With real content I have never noticed from where the deep bass is coming. I've watched several movies with my subwoofers in place and my xo set to 100hz and I have not had an issue yet. Nor have any of my fellow movie watchers or music listeners.

My W15GTI MKII's are much better suited to play loud bass tones than my Phil 2's. The more work I can take away from the SB the better.

When I first got my sub this was pretty much the conclusion I came to, and set the high-pass filter for the sub at 80Hz. After I got the sub I acquired the OmniMic and began measuring and experimenting more, and I found that with mains that were flat to below 30Hz it was advantageous to run the mains full-range, and use equalization and placement of the sub to smooth, fill-in, and extend in-room bass response from the mains. Gene mentioned that he was using a similar strategy in his system. I can't speak to the Phil2, but with the 802D, which are flat in-room to just below 30Hz, it seems like a waste of two high-quality bass sources not to run them full-range.

I suspect for those people with multiple subs, like you and ADTG, it might be that the win from more than two bass sources is subtle, but running the mains full-range saved me from needing another monster sub in the room.

One big advantage of using subs is the ability to adjust the volume of the bass octaves relative to other octaves in a very precise way. Full-range passive speakers can't do that (at least not without reducing sensitivity to very low levels), and the ability to boost or cut bass precisely has led me to the conclusion that I'd never be with at least one sub again.

I'm not sure what I really think yet about the question of whether multiple subs make more modest mains equal to the most extended ones, as haraldo mentioned in the 802 versus 803/804 debate. My sense from experimenting that the most ambitious mains are always better for blending with a powerful sub. I suspect it is because you want the frequency responses of multiple sources to be as similar as possible, and perhaps a speaker that's rolling off below 50Hz or so won't work as well.

 

[monkish54]

When I first got my sub this was pretty much the conclusion I came to, and set the high-pass filter for the sub at 80Hz. After I got the sub I acquired the OmniMic and began measuring and experimenting more, and I found that with mains that were flat to below 30Hz it was advantageous to run the mains full-range, and use equalization and placement of the sub to smooth, fill-in, and extend in-room bass response from the mains.

I just did an in-room sweep from 20-200hz. With my subs in place, at the highest deviation, my room measured +/- 21db. A total of 42db difference between the softest and loudest noise. :O I moved my sub a bit and within four minutes got that down to +/- 13db. A total of 26db between the loudest and softest sound. Not great, but getting there. The more subs I add the better the response will be. I'm fairly happy with +/-13db but I'm going to keep screwing with placement. I'm shooting for a total deviation of 20db, or +/-10db with two subs in place.

Above 126hz, my room does quite well. +/-2db up to 200hz. A total of 4db deviation.

Between 85hz and 116hz there is a very severe dip. If I were to discount this dip, the response would be 18db total deviation +/-9db.

 

[flyboylr45]

This is a screen shot of my room. The nasty green line is at 5 1/2 feet from the rear wall in my sitting position. The brown line is at the ideal sitting position as recommended by Bryan from GIK acoustics which is 6.8 feet from the rear wall. I am currently working with him to get a better frequency response in my room. Mind you, this room is carpeted, has 2 soffit traps in the front corners, 2 244 behind the speakers, 4 242 at reflection points in the side walls, and 2 monster bass traps behind the listening position on the rear wall. I just ordered 4 soffit traps for the rear corners. It's a work in progress….

 

[flyboylr45]

I was thinking of trying out DEQ. I want to see how good we can get the room acoustics to be with treatments and then see what difference DEQ would make. I am looking at the MEN220 but don't want to shell out $$$$ to find out later I don't like it or that the difference was negligible. I was thinking of bringing my AV7005 to the music room, connecting it to the MC452 and running the Audessy software to see what it does and how I like it. I can take measurements after the software has made the adjustments and compare the two. Opinions? You guys have me intrigued with the subs thing but I'm dreading having to lug the PB13-ultra up the stairs. I would also have to move the 100 pound amplifier out of the way since it sits between the 2 speakers.

 

[fuzz092888]

I was thinking of trying out DEQ. I want to see how good we can get the room acoustics to be with treatments and then see what difference DEQ would make. I am looking at the MEN220 but don't want to shell out $$$$ to find out later I don't like it or that the difference was negligible. I was thinking of bringing my AV7005 to the music room, connecting it to the MC452 and running the Audessy software to see what it does and how I like it. I can take measurements after the software has made the adjustments and compare the two. Opinions? You guys have me intrigued with the subs thing but I'm dreading having to lug the PB13-ultra up the stairs. I would also have to move the 100 pound amplifier out of the way since it sits between the 2 speakers.

REW + miniDSP is another viable option at a fraction of the price of DEQ to at least make some adjustments and tweak things a little. You just need a measurement mic, a laptop, a download of REW, a miniDSP unit and a plugin.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I just did an in-room sweep from 20-200hz. With my subs in place, at the highest deviation, my room measured +/- 21db. A total of 42db difference between the softest and loudest noise. :O I moved my sub a bit and within four minutes got that down to +/- 13db.

That is exactly my experience; inching the sub around made remarkable differences in the smoothness of the bass response as measured in my seating position. I suggest that you keep experimenting, it took me hours of time over several days to find that one sweet spot. If only we could see sound waves.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Well, I get the 452 and 2500 on the 30th!!!!!! Now my upgrades should be complete for many, many, many years.

Mayday mayday, you're flying out of control on the wallet.

Congrats and enjoy!

MC452 + 802D2 sound great even when they are silent.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I suspect for those people with multiple subs, like you and ADTG, it might be that the win from more than two bass sources is subtle

Yeah, I have a total of 12 woofers in the room already. Adding 2 more woofers doesn't seem to enhance much.

Besides, I like to "baby" my Salon2, 802D2, and Orion3 and not stress them out or make them work very hard.