Axiom or Rocket? Or could I mix..?

[DavidJ]

Hi,

I live in the UK, I'm a big audioholics fan - more a reader than a poster - and I'd love some Axiom M22v2's. Trouble is, I'm also pretty attracted by the Rocket RSC200 Centre. From what I've read, it's a serious piece of kit, and a step up from the VP150, and i only want to buy once*.

Can (or should) I mix brands, or do I really need to consider some Rocket fronts? My system will be 50/50 HT and music, and I plan to try out SACD via my Oppo 981, so I don't want "just" HT fronts.

As background, I have a Yamaha rx-v2500, an SVS SB12-Plus, and I'm keen on Axiom for surrounds too. I record all or most of my music at high bitrate onto my ipod, and listen via a CMOY amp on either HD600's or Grado sr-60's. I enjoy the SQ I get immensely - at least as much as the music itself - and I'd love to get similar sound in my living room.

So:

1) Can I mix it up with the fronts? Would an RSC200 and M22's really sound objectively "worse" than a VP150 and M22's? Would I even notice?

2) If I went all Rocket, and wanted good SQ for music, should I stay away from the RS250? I just called AV123 and the guy I spoke to recommended floorstanders, and pretty positively too. Can't a good pair of bookshelves be as good, especially when paired with my lovely sub?

I'm at a crossroads..

Regards from the UK

DavidJ

*every five years

 

[Midcow2]

Hi,

I live in the UK, I'm a big audioholics fan - more a reader than a poster - and I'd love some Axiom M22v2's. Trouble is, I'm also pretty attracted by the Rocket RSC200 Centre. From what I've read, it's a serious piece of kit, and a step up from the VP150, and i only want to buy once*.

Can (or should) I mix brands, or do I really need to consider some Rocket fronts? My system will be 50/50 HT and music, and I plan to try out SACD via my Oppo 981, so I don't want "just" HT fronts.

As background, I have a Yamaha rx-v2500, an SVS SB12-Plus, and I'm keen on Axiom for surrounds too. I record all or most of my music at high bitrate onto my ipod, and listen via a CMOY amp on either HD600's or Grado sr-60's. I enjoy the SQ I get immensely - at least as much as the music itself - and I'd love to get similar sound in my living room.

So:

1) Can I mix it up with the fronts? Would an RSC200 and M22's really sound objectively "worse" than a VP150 and M22's? Would I even notice?

2) If I went all Rocket, and wanted good SQ for music, should I stay away from the RS250? I just called AV123 and the guy I spoke to recommended floorstanders, and pretty positively too. Can't a good pair of bookshelves be as good, especially when paired with my lovely sub?

I'm at a crossroads..

Regards from the UK

DavidJ

*every five years

DavidJ,

(1) It is recommended that you have the same vendor and series for front speakers and center to maintain timbre ( seamless) sound. However if there is a way you could audiuton the Axiom Fronts and the RSC200 center and if they sounded good to you it would be okay. Just remmeber at 50% ht most of the voice dialog for your DVDs and TVs comes through the center channel, so in your case I would get a good center channel speaker. I wouldn't normally mix up the fronts with the center and if your must I would make sure you could audition them. I have in the past sucessfuly mixed some different speakers in the process of a piecemeal upgrade. So maybe some Rocket 850s and a the "bigfoot" RSC200. I had the RSC200 on order; I was actually just going to upgrade my center becuase I watch mainly TV and DvDs ( 95% HT 5% music). While waiting for the order I found out my previous Defintivie Technology speakers were very good speakers, so i ended up getting a Definitive tehcnology CLR3000 center and all I can say is it is unbelivieably awesome Then i ended up ugrading my Fronts to Def Tech BP7002s. I am very pleased with my choice.

(2) the bookshelf normally don't have good bass and therefore the answer is yes some good bookshelves with a good sub would sound very nice!

The sub doesn't need to match the fronts and center; a excellent sub vendor is SVS. Also the rears and other surround speakers also do not have to match the fronts/center.

Good Luck!

 

[MinusTheBear]

If you have your heart set on the Axiom M22 speakers and are not sure on their centre channels, you can use a 3rd M22 as your centre channel. AV123 and Axiom have very diifferent sound, IMO the av123 centre channel would not be a good match with the M22 and vice versa. I would either go VP150 or M22. Or you can get some AV123 speakers and not have to worry about any issues with matching a centre channel with the system.

 

[ivseenbetter]

Does AV123 have the free trial for UK customers? If they do, you don't lose anything to try them out...just a thought.

Cheers

 

[MinusTheBear]

Does AV123 have the free trial for UK customers? If they do, you don't lose anything to try them out...just a thought.

Cheers

AV123 has a 30 day trial in which you can return the products, no questions asked. From my experience, their shipping costs outside the united states are quite high. I would look into the shipping costs for the products that you are interested from both companies before you purchase them since you live in the UK.

 

[Midcow2]

If you have your heart set on the Axiom M22 speakers and are not sure on their centre channels, you can use a 3rd M22 as your centre channel. AV123 and Axiom have very diifferent sound, IMO the av123 centre channel would not be a good match with the M22 and vice versa. I would either go VP150 or M22. Or you can get some AV123 speakers and not have to worry about any issues with matching a centre channel with the system.

Yes, MinusTheBear makes a very good recommendation. And the tibre between front and center would match exactly

 

[jamie2112]

David shipping is astronomical to Europe. I have shipped and had delivered speakers and some amp's that cost me an arm and a leg. I would research the cost of shipping as your 1st point of order. Minus has pretty much said this already( being the good AH helper that he is) but just wanted to stress the fact that he wasn't kidding about shipping being expensive. You have some really good speakers over there that you should give a listen to as well. Mission Audio, B&W, Jamo, Mordaunt Short, Canton, Wharfdale....just to name a few. Just because you don't see alot of owners on this forum doesn't mean they are not great speakers. I would go round to the local shops and give a listen to some of your local (European) speakers. I love most speakers made in the UK. Just my 2 bits....... Best of luck to you on your search..

 

[j_garcia]

Yep. what Jamie said. If you were in the US, internet direct would be a good deal, but being overseas will likely make it cost prohibitive IMO vs what you can get there already.

 

[mazersteven]

IMO I wouldn't mix Axiom mains with an AV123 center channel. From what I understand of the sound characteristics of the two companies I would think there would be a noticeable difference in sound.

 

[j_garcia]

They are both on the bright side, but if I had to choose, I would say the Rockets would get my money simply because the "Bigfoot" center channel is better than anything Axiom offers in a center. It is one of the better centers that I've heard. M22s would be completely eclipsed by it, both in size and performance - I would not mix the front stage. That is not to say the Axioms aren't good, but I feel the Rockets are a little better.

 

[skeeter99]

Many people bring up A LOT of good information. Axiom is a great company that makes outstanding speakers. As many have said, I wouldn't mix brands, especially if you are into multi-channel audio, the lack of timbre matching would just kill the sound.

IMHO, the RSC200, aka"Bigfoot", is one of the better center channel speakers available. It really has amazing clarity and impact. Dialog is spot on and it handles virtually any scene you can throw at it with aplomb.

The RS250's are a great bookshelf speaker. They are one of the most underrated products we sell. If it is a $$$ issue, check out the 450's. They are very close in price to the 250's and will give you better impact and clarity than the 250's. The best sonic match to the RSC200 are the 850's/1k's. They are both phenomenal music AND HT speakers.

Having said all that, I would call and talk to Jess or Louis about shipping to the UK. It won't be cheap.

Please let me know if there is anything I can do to help. Feel free to email me.

Thanks!

Scott

 

[DavidJ]

Axiom or Rocket?

Hello everyone.

Firstly, many thanks for all your advice. Coming home to so many replies kind of felt like Christmas.

So, one thing is obvious - don't mix brands (or series). An easy kill. What else?

[U]get a good center channel speaker[/U]

my thoughts exactly. this seems to be important.

If you have your heart set on the Axiom M22 speakers and are not sure on their centre channels, you can use a 3rd M22 as your centre channel.

it's not that i'm unsure about the VP150 - I'm sure it would be fine. it has the same tweeters and woofers as the M22, after all. it's just i suspect the Bigfoot would be better, and people's replies seem to agree with that. having said that, my living room is not huge (just under 1,500 sq ft), so perhaps it would be too much and i should consider the VP100? i'd get brownie points for the WAF if nothing else..

AV123 has a 30 day trial in which you can return the products, no questions asked. From my experience, their shipping costs outside the united states are quite high. I would look into the shipping costs for the products that you are interested from both companies before you purchase them since you live in the UK.

AV123 doesn't officially ship to the UK, so I'd either be trying to persuade them into a one-off, or looking second-hand, which would offset the shipping, at least.

Axiom, on the other hand, does. Their price in pounds is also "all-in", and to my door. But some of you may find this high - let's see. M22's are $470 to you, but £311 to me. This includes home delivery, duty at 4.5% and VAT at 17.5% (that's "Value Added Tax" - don't ask, because it isn't). That's about $560. I'm by no means rich, but I don't think that's at all bad. Plus, their return shipping costs are pretty reasonable. Via their discounted courier, it would cost me about $60 to return fronts, a centre and surrounds. THAT is tempting. Very tempting..

Scott, if AV123 did this, I'd really be struggling. As it is, I'd be buying blind, adding 22.5% to your list price in duty, plus whatever shipping would be. Unless, of course, you would care to match the offer (by which I mean a home trial), and/or try to secure me a reasonable shipping rate. I know this might be difficult, but it would definitely level the playing field.

You have some really good speakers over there that you should give a listen to as well. Mission Audio, B&W, Jamo, Mordaunt Short, Canton, Wharfdale....just to name a few.

I have some Wharfdales, a pair of 505.2's I bought when I was 16, and love them dearly. However, I've read so many good AH reviews, and love my SVS sub so much, I'm now stuck on American or Canadian speakers. I want something EXOTIC (to me, anyway), I love the idea of not giving my hard-earned to some middleman, and I like the genuine "enthusiast" feel both AV123 and Axiom give off in spades.

As it is, I'm sure I'd be happy with either purchase, but $$$ is an issue. If Scott came back with a sensible offer, I would probably lose sleep trying to make my mind up...

Thanks again for all your kind responses. Apologies for delay to mine - I'm blaming time difference and work.

David

ps Hey, you know how men are supposed to think of sex every ten seconds? Well, I think about speakers about every five. Am I normal?
pps Or just in the right place?

 

[skeeter99]

Hello everyone.

Firstly, many thanks for all your advice. Coming home to so many replies kind of felt like Christmas.

So, one thing is obvious - don't mix brands (or series). An easy kill. What else?

[U]get a good center channel speaker[/U]

my thoughts exactly. this seems to be important.

If you have your heart set on the Axiom M22 speakers and are not sure on their centre channels, you can use a 3rd M22 as your centre channel.

it's not that i'm unsure about the VP150 - I'm sure it would be fine. it has the same tweeters and woofers as the M22, after all. it's just i suspect the Bigfoot would be better, and people's replies seem to agree with that. having said that, my living room is not huge (just under 1,500 sq ft), so perhaps it would be too much and i should consider the VP100? i'd get brownie points for the WAF if nothing else..

AV123 has a 30 day trial in which you can return the products, no questions asked. From my experience, their shipping costs outside the united states are quite high. I would look into the shipping costs for the products that you are interested from both companies before you purchase them since you live in the UK.

AV123 doesn't officially ship to the UK, so I'd either be trying to persuade them into a one-off, or looking second-hand, which would offset the shipping, at least.

Axiom, on the other hand, does. Their price in pounds is also "all-in", and to my door. But some of you may find this high - let's see. M22's are $470 to you, but £311 to me. This includes home delivery, duty at 4.5% and VAT at 17.5% (that's "Value Added Tax" - don't ask, because it isn't). That's about $560. I'm by no means rich, but I don't think that's at all bad. Plus, their return shipping costs are pretty reasonable. Via their discounted courier, it would cost me about $60 to return fronts, a centre and surrounds. THAT is tempting. Very tempting..

Scott, if AV123 did this, I'd really be struggling. As it is, I'd be buying blind, adding 22.5% to your list price in duty, plus whatever shipping would be. Unless, of course, you would care to match the offer (by which I mean a home trial), and/or try to secure me a reasonable shipping rate. I know this might be difficult, but it would definitely level the playing field.

You have some really good speakers over there that you should give a listen to as well. Mission Audio, B&W, Jamo, Mordaunt Short, Canton, Wharfdale....just to name a few.

I have some Wharfdales, a pair of 505.2's I bought when I was 16, and love them dearly. However, I've read so many good AH reviews, and love my SVS sub so much, I'm now stuck on American or Canadian speakers. I want something EXOTIC (to me, anyway), I love the idea of not giving my hard-earned to some middleman, and I like the genuine "enthusiast" feel both AV123 and Axiom give off in spades.

As it is, I'm sure I'd be happy with either purchase, but $$$ is an issue. If Scott came back with a sensible offer, I would probably lose sleep trying to make my mind up...

Thanks again for all your kind responses. Apologies for delay to mine - I'm blaming time difference and work.

David

ps Hey, you know how men are supposed to think of sex every ten seconds? Well, I think about speakers about every five. Am I normal?
pps Or just in the right place?

David,

Please send me your info along with exactly what you are thinking of ordering to my email scott @ av123.com and I'll see what I can do. I'm not a salesman so I'll be working with Jess who is the National Sales Manager for AV123. Hopefully we can figure something out for you!

Take care ...

Scott

 

[MinusTheBear]

Axioms shipping quotes seem pretty reasonable. IMO it is not that bad at all.

 

[surferaudio]

Shipping may be an issue but it is really SHORT TERM. The speakers you buy will tend to stick around for many years so don't use shipping as a major deciding factor.

TO be honest, IMO, I auditioned Axiom M22's, they are really great but that's to be expected because Axioms make amazing towers or LRs but their centers can leave those wanting more. This is evident by many Axiom owners getting an addition 3rd tower to operate as an center channel.

On the other hand, The Rocket lines, the center channel is, an understatement, quite legendary. I didn't have an opportunity to audition one yet but a friend who auditioned both Axiom and Rockets said that the Rockets were a step above unless you get an M80.

M22 vs Rockets? I'd go with Rockets but that's just me. I am going to get the Rocket line just based on the Big Foot's center channels legendary reputation because to me, the center channel is the most important because it is the heart of a system for those who watch tv (dialogue) and movies (dialogue) more than music (two channel L/R mains). If you are doing more music than movies/tv, then your axioms would be more justified as long as you get the M22 as the center.

 

[jcPanny]

Speaker options

ID companies like AV123 and Axiom make great products but you lose out on the extra value in their products when you have to ship to UK and don't have the ability to demo or return them.

They are several speaker companies in Europe that don't get as much press in the states because they are not readily available or cost significantly more over here. Check out a couple local dealers and start auditioning speakers. Mission, MB Quart, Canton, B&W and several other companies are based over there.

 

[fredk]

This is evident by many Axiom owners getting an addition 3rd tower to operate as an center channel

Not really. Those that I know that have a third tower do this because it is by far the best solution for a center, providing much better performance and matching than any horizontal center.

I personally chose to go with two bookshelves as centers because I have no WAF to worry about and I get much better performance than a horizontal center for the same price. I get the same centered dialog with no noticable drop in volume or clarity from one side wall to the other. It dosn't get better than that!

 

[mazersteven]

3 identical speakers across the front. Bookshelf, or towers is always better.

 

[jamie2112]

ALWAYS go with matched fronts and center......Or you are really just trying to be an Audioholic..........

 

[MinusTheBear]

I decided to give the VP150 a try, I ordered it today. Hopefully I will receive it by monday, tuesday at the latest. Hopefully I can get some quality time in with this thing next week so I can share some of my impressions of it with you.

Dear

Thank you for purchasing at AxiomAudio.com; we hope you will enjoy our products for years to come. Your transaction number for this purchase is:

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