Axiom M3ti or M2ti's in tile room-Gene's comments holding me back

[FLMike]

I read Ray's recent bookshelf speaker shootout with a great deal of interest and pleasure--Not only was it really well written and informative, it was timely because I am looking for an affordable pair of speakers to act as surrounds in a 5.1 setup for 50/50 music and movies. I was completely sold on the Axiom M3ti's until two thing happened: The first is that I called Axiom and the engineer I spoke with suggested the M2ti because of the better midrange and the fact that I have Athena AS-f2's as mains with plenty of bass. But second, and I guess more important to me, are Gene's comments in this thread
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15317&page=2&highlight=m2ti
regarding these speakers specifically being particularly unsuited for untreated rooms with tile floors. I live in Florida, and the entire house is tile. Carpet and additional rugs are not really an option. I know it's not ideal, but it's what I have. If these speakers are not suited to this environment, they really are not for me. And the thread author really didn't enjoy the speakers performance in the high and midrange--He found them harsh and fatiguing.

So, I'd like to hear some opinions and either some alternative suggestions for speakers that might be more forgiving in my environment, or whether you think the Axioms are a good fit and I should give them a try.

Current Setup: Room approx 14 x 20, Yamaha HTR-5790, AS-F2 mains, AS-C-1 center. Couch approx 8 ft from the fronts, and the surrounds will go to either side, even or just slightly behind the listening positions mounted on the walls about 8 ft. up.


Mike

 

[Sheep]

Why not some AS-B1.2's?

SheepStar

 

[FLMike]

Sheep, I'm actually considering them. But I haven't seen a lot of feedback on them. I've also thought about their Micros. But I really haven't seen a lot of feedback on either. I love my AS-F2's, but also know that smaller speakers are a completely different animal in some respects and don't want to assume that Athena's BS/Micros are the same value as their floors or the best selection for my room. If you have heard either I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Mike

 

[Sheep]

Heres the AS-B1's (same thing as B1.2's)

http://audioholics.audioreview.com/cat/speakers/bookshelf-speakers/athena-technologies/PRD_324280_4290crx.aspx

I have heard the smaller sats your talking about. They have very little bass extention. You would be better off with B1's.

SheepStar

 

[FLMike]

Thanks, but I'd still like to hear from some Axiom users

Thanks Sheep. The consumer reviews on the Athena look pretty good--especially in the context of price. And I read at least one professional review that was really complimentary. I'll keep them on the list--especially since they have made some additional changes to the magnets to supposedly improve the sound. Like I said, I love my Athena mains. But I'd still like to hear some opinions on the Axiom Bookshelves in a tile environment and other suggestions or comments.

Mike

 

[ZoFo]

I have the Audition Series

My room is not tile but I do have hardwood floors. I really like the Athena bookshelf speakers, the B-2 will give you a little more bass then the B-1's but with the F-2's that is not an area you are lacking in. For some reason I liked my B-1's better than the B-2's but could not really put my finger on it. The Audition Series is a little on the bright side as are the Axioms and although I have not heard the Axioms but I don't think mixing these in with your Athena's would give you any advantage and I would stay with one manufactor if it was me.

On the other hand if you are going to mix speakers anyway you might want to consider the Energy C-3 which is on sale at Audioadvisor for $250 I think; it's a excellent speaker and would probably match your Athena's much better than the Axioms since both Energy and Athena belong to the same parent company, API.

 

[scotty11]

i have axioms and they are "bright" but i dont find them harsh

with tile floors and paired with the Yamaha they may not be the best choice(IMO)

i would look elswhere

I heard the Ascend 170's last week and i was impressed.definitely warmer then the axioms

 

[STRONGBADF1]

My room is not tile but I do have hardwood floors. I really like the Athena bookshelf speakers, the B-2 will give you a little more bass then the B-1's but with the F-2's that is not an area you are lacking in. For some reason I liked my B-1's better than the B-2's but could not really put my finger on it. The Audition Series is a little on the bright side as are the Axioms and although I have not heard the Axioms but I don't think mixing these in with your Athena's would give you any advantage and I would stay with one manufactor if it was me.

On the other hand if you are going to mix speakers anyway you might want to consider the Energy C-3 which is on sale at Audioadvisor for $250 I think; it's a excellent speaker and would probably match your Athena's much better than the Axioms since both Energy and Athena belong to the same parent company, API.

I agree. Audioadvisor has them both so, buy the B1.2's or B2.2's and if you don't like them send them back and get the C-3's.

I would stay with the athena audition line myself. Do you have to mount your surrounds? For $400 you can have F2.2's as surrounds. You know you like them.

SBF1

 

[FLMike]

Yes, I have to mount the surrounds. And as much as I like the F-2's, I think they are just a teeny, tiny bit of overkill for this. On the other hand, I guess it would eliminate the concern of bass response in the surrounds LOL. I'll give both the Athena's and the Energy's some thought. Both are on sale....The C-3's at 50% off. Hmmmmmmm.

 

[HSM]

Why no mention of the Athena ASR-1s? These are a great matchup for your F-2s. These are bi-pole with the same softdome tweeter and driver type as your fronts. These are great value for the buck.

 

[Sheep]

Yes, I have to mount the surrounds. And as much as I like the F-2's, I think they are just a teeny, tiny bit of overkill for this. On the other hand, I guess it would eliminate the concern of bass response in the surrounds LOL. I'll give both the Athena's and the Energy's some thought. Both are on sale....The C-3's at 50% off. Hmmmmmmm.

C-3's are over kill dude, get like AS-R1's or C-R1's. Or if you must have a bookshelf, C-1 and AS-B1.2. No need for the 6.5inch drivers bass when in a surround spot.

SheepStar

 

[jcPanny]

Axioms in tile room

Axiom makes spekaers with a linear frequency response, which can sound harsh in an untreated tile room. I would also avoid horn tweater's like Klipsch for the same reason. If you like Axiom and are planning to upgrade to them, consider their QS4 or QS8 surround speakers. You can get 10% off on the outlet page.

If you are happy with the Athena's, go for a pair of their "surround" speakers or a pair of their bookshelf speakers for your surrounds. Their soft dome tweater's will have less of an issue on the tile.

 

[FLMike]

So Axiom QS-4's are good for music?

Sheep, You are definitely correct. The C-3's are much too big for where I am looking to locate them. I looked at the measurements and they are WAY too big. They have to be wall mounted and they are just too bulky. They are also just too much speaker for a 25 x 15 room with a standard 8' ceilings (just remeasured today) and the F2 mains.

As for the other suggestions, I am not completely sold on bookshelves. I just want the best balance regardless of speaker type. I just kept getting steered towards bookshelves because the system is used for 50/50 or even 60/40 music-movies. I've really veered away from indirects because I have seen so many postings saying that they aren't good at all for music but are ideal for surround effects.

The Axiom QS-4's were actually one of my first ideas, but I eliminated them because of this. As for the Athena surrounds, I haven't found them in stock anywhere and certainly not locally where I can audition them. So I'd be interested if anyone has comments, good or bad, on either the Axiom or Athena multi directionals in this environment.

Mike

 

[STRONGBADF1]

C-3's are over kill dude, get like AS-R1's or C-R1's. Or if you must have a bookshelf, C-1 and AS-B1.2. No need for the 6.5inch drivers bass when in a surround spot.

SheepStar

Why?

I can see in this case when size is an issue, but do you believe this as a general rule?

Isn't there low freq. material in 7 channel stereo and movie sound effects?

Bigger woofers could in some cases fill in the midbass couldn't they?

Not every one is a "set it to small and let the sub do the work" kind of person. If I had the room and plenty of amp power I would have low furiture and floorstanders all around set to large and 2-4 subs to boot!!! If your going to make a theater make a theater! (I'm back from dreamland now)

not trying to start an arguement Sheep. Just curious.

Flmike,
Go to a good store and listen to a favorate multi-channel piece of music and switch back and forth between the two styles of speakers. BTW Athena book shelf speakers are rear ported watch how you mount them not to block the port.

Take care,
SBF1

 

[FLMike]

What about Boston Acoustics CR-67?

Sheep/SBF1,
Was able to go out today and do some listening. Unfortunately my options here in Ft. Lauderdale are limited. Went to Sound Advice first. What a useless experience and not much selection. Went to the Magnolia section at my local best buy second. That was actually better. I found these: http://www.bostonacoustics.com/home_product.aspx?product_id=319

Boston Acoustics CR 67 at $250/pair. The have a nice sound, not a metal tweeter, they are smaller than the Athena bookshelves and are designed to be wall mounted right out of the box. The Athena's would require a third party bracket and putting screws in the back of the speaker to mount them. I really didn't like the way music sounded with any of the indirect speakers they had.

Do you have any opinions on this line from BA?

Mike

 

[STRONGBADF1]

Sheep/SBF1,
Was able to go out today and do some listening. Unfortunately my options here in Ft. Lauderdale are limited. Went to Sound Advice first. What a useless experience and not much selection. Went to the Magnolia section at my local best buy second. That was actually better. I found these: http://www.bostonacoustics.com/home_product.aspx?product_id=319

Boston Acoustics CR 67 at $250/pair. The have a nice sound, not a metal tweeter, they are smaller than the Athena bookshelves and are designed to be wall mounted right out of the box. The Athena's would require a third party bracket and putting screws in the back of the speaker to mount them. I really didn't like the way music sounded with any of the indirect speakers they had.

Do you have any opinions on this line from BA?

Mike

I have not heard the Boston Acoustics, so I really don't know. Someone else would be of more help than I.

The Athena's and a third party adjustable bracket would probably be the best solution from a sound standpoint. The speakers match and you get some adjustabilaty out of the bracket.

Roll the dice man! (sorry, I just got back from Atlantic City)

anyway good luck,

SBF1

 

[Sheep]

Why?

I can see in this case when size is an issue, but do you believe this as a general rule?

Isn't there low freq. material in 7 channel stereo and movie sound effects?

Bigger woofers could in some cases fill in the midbass couldn't they?

Not every one is a "set it to small and let the sub do the work" kind of person. If I had the room and plenty of amp power I would have low furiture and floorstanders all around set to large and 2-4 subs to boot!!! If your going to make a theater make a theater! (I'm back from dreamland now)

not trying to start an arguement Sheep. Just curious.

SBF1

A 5ich woofer will do 80Hz, without dropping below its -3dB, regardless of its "specs".

Most people don't have the extra power to have 20Hz-20KHz towers all round. Like mike.

Plus, since he is going to be running them small, he can save money by getting B1's or C-1's.

As for the "real" movie theater experience.. they run the rears small and cut them at 80Hz

SheepStar

 

[jaxvon]

A 5ich woofer will do 80Hz, without dropping below its -3dB, regardless of its "specs".

This is an unfounded generalization. You should qualify your statement more with "most" or "usually".

 

[Sheep]

This is an unfounded generalization. You should qualify your statement more with "most" or "usually".

Sorry,

What I meant was,

If you have a pair of bookselfs with 5, 6.5, even 8inch woofers, theres nothing wrong with crossing them out at 80Hz. Just because they have stated extension deeper(only implies if they do have a stated response lower), it does not mean they will play it with as much power, or cleanliness as a decent subwoofer.

Ok, fixed it.

SheepStar

 

[FLMike]

Back to the drawing board

Sheep,
Even if I had the power, I wouldn't have the room LOL. This is a multi-purpose space and I think like most people who don't have the luxury of a dedicated home theater of audio room and an unlimited budget, I'm trying to strike a balance between looks, performance and $$$.

I listened to the Boston Acoustics again today with two extremes--Christal Method and a Mcglaughlin/Dimeloa/Lucia classical guitar album. Wasn't thrilled. So I'm back on the hunt.

SBF1, Did you win anything in Atlantic City? As much as I love my Athena mains and center (I just ordered a new P-6000 sub), I'm not taken with their bookshelves for my room. The look isn't what I want on the wall and I really don;t like drilling them for a bracket. I'm Considering the Paradigm Atoms or Titans (Titans are a little bigger than I want). Or I might just give the M2ti or M3ti's a try and see if the couch/rug/stuffed armchair offset the tile enough let the speakers show well.

Any additional feedback appreciated.

Mike