Axiom and Ascend???

N

newtoitall

Junior Audioholic
HI folks,

I am currently trialing the axiom M22v2s and the Ascend 340SEs.
I am a bit confused about the perseptions of these speakers. I have read so many reviews about the axioms being forward or bright or even in your face, but compared to the Acsends I find the Axioms to be very layed back.
I am using a Yamaha RXV 2600 and I have compinsated for the volume differances.
Has anyone else compared these speakers and if so did they find the same results?
Thanks,
Frank
 
billy p

billy p

Audioholic Ninja
I myself have not heard either. I can tell you that most people on the forum push both these products probably for good reason. As you have already stated about the axioms and from what I've read on the forum about the ascends you would think it's no contest:confused:. Ascends all the way!! I think I'm fairly subjective and from your post I can tell you are too. Let your ears decide
 
G

Gatorchong

Audioholic
I can see the Axiom's sounding laid back compared to that new Seas tweeter Ascend is using now. One thing to mention, Axiom hasn't updated their design in as long as I can remember. Ascend is now using some pretty high end parts.
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
Form what I've read, they each have 1 strength the other doesn't.

Ascends: All out accuracy.

Axiom: Looks.

What do you want?

SheepStar
 
S

silversurfer

Senior Audioholic
in searching the past on all the forums, it is the older CBM-170 and the M22 that were compared most often to each other, and more recently the 340 has sometimes been compared to the M60. Your perceptions do seem to be different.

These were the classic versions of the Ascends, not the newer SE's. I could not find anything comparing the SE's with any Axioms.

My understanding is the SE is a more refined than the classics.

from the specs, the 340SE plays much deeper than the M22. How do you have the speakers setup? Sub? How are you compensating for volume differences? Are you using any equalization?

Like billy says, let your ears decide. That's all that really matters.
 
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N

newtoitall

Junior Audioholic
I have the speakers set up A and B side of the receiver. I used a cd with pink noise to volume match and when listening I used pure direct so I assume no equalization.
I understand the Axiom 22s are not a fair match for the Ascends but I can't figure out why a speaker that is considered fairly bright can seem to me so layed back. If the axioms are bright does that make the Ascends overly so?:confused:

This is the first time I have trialed speakers in my home and from all the reading I've done I expected different results. I am looking for a fairly detailed speaker because I do a lot of listening to Acoustic music, especially Guitar.

Thanks,
Frank
 
L

littleb

Junior Audioholic
Before I purchased my Axioms, I tried out some B&M speakers which just didn't seem to cut the cake for me. After I pulled the trigger, as they say, one of the first things that I noticed was that the tweeters on most of the store speakers were exceedingly bright, compared to the M22s, in my opinion. I don't want to get into the I don't like that speaker vs this speaker debate. I'll just say that if you hear a speaker you like better than the others you've heard, it's probably a good buy for you. I haven't heard any Ascends, but have considered them in the past, mostly due to the rave reviews. I never ordered them, since the Axioms I have are the best budget speaker I've heard so far, and I keep reasoning that the differences between these are probably slight rather than large. Sheep will probably jump all over me for this, but I think Axioms are a very good speaker. I've heard a few other speaker brands I like, but they aren't different enough for me to change brands.
 
N

newtoitall

Junior Audioholic
I've been giving these 2 a work out all weekend and i'm still scratching my head:)
I am still new to this stuff and am trying to teach myself what to listen for in a good speaker.

The Axioms have a very pleasing midrange especially with vocals, they sound good with any acoustic guitar stuff I have played but the mid bass down is nonexistant.When not in pure direct my STF2 takes over and seems to blend well which makes the Axioms harder to decide against, Overall they seem to be a very nice speaker.

The Ascends are another story, their high end is amazing, as so many have put it when trying new speakers ( I hear things I have never heard before on some of my music ) . The bass out of two 6.5 woofers is also very respectable, very solid and pretty low, they really seem to fill my room well, not that that is a big feat at only 12x13x9, but there seemed to be a lot more sound or fullness to them. The only drawback for me is that they seem to lack the midrange that the Axioms have, either the highs and lows are overpowering the mids or it is not there, I am not sure because like I said before I am new to this.

Thanks for any help,
Frank
 
N

Nick250

Audioholic Samurai
While I can't tell which way to go, I would suggest you make your choice based on listening with the STF active. Make sure your setup properly with the speakers set to small and the cross over set to 80Hz on the receiver and the cross over disabled (or turn to the highest setting) on the sub. Also if possible, make sure the speakers are level matched. You may already have done all this, but just checking.

Nick
 
N

newtoitall

Junior Audioholic
Hey Nick,

All that you suggested was already done and I am trying both with the sub active at times and with the receiver in pure direct at other times. I am just trying to get an idea of how these compare in the mid to upper end.
I honestly thought someone here would have or at least tried the 340SEs just to see if my opinion of them is close to theirs. I really do find them bright but my ears are not as experianced as most here.

Thanks
Frank
 
T

Tex-amp

Senior Audioholic
I've heard the M22 and didn't think it is as bright as it's reputation. I did think it had poor control over the tops of the highs.

I think you need to call or e-mail Ascend and have them help you troubleshoot. Bright highs and a recessed mid-range just aren't normal for Ascend. Maybe UPS dropped them hard along the way and messed up the crossover.
 
N

newtoitall

Junior Audioholic
Thanks Tex,
Maybe I'll give that a try but the box had absolutly no damage at all and I can't see not being able to tell if they were dropped or banged around.

Frank
 
T

Tex-amp

Senior Audioholic
I had a box with no external damage but yet had been dropped hard enough to shear the magnets off the drivers.

It could just be a faulty crossover or tweeter to begin with and not shipping induced. Have you tried listening to just 1 speaker at a time to see if both speakers sound the same? A mono source would be ideal.
 
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D

davef

Audioholic Intern
Hi Frank,

I would be happy to try and assist you but I am not too sure I fully understand what you are hearing.

Here you state:

newtoitall said:
I have read so many reviews about the axioms being forward or bright or even in your face, but compared to the Acsends I find the Axioms to be very layed back.
Then here you state:

newtoital said:
The only drawback for me is that they seem to lack the midrange that the Axioms have, either the highs and lows are overpowering the mids or it is not there, I am not sure because like I said before I am new to this.
In audio terms, this is a contradiction. Laid back typically means that the mids are subdued and midrange sounds (like vocals) seem to come from behind the speakers (recessed). Forward means these same sounds seem to be more upfront, placed in front of the speakers.

Are you saying that you are hearing a more prominent midrange from the M22?

I just want to make sure I fully understand what you are hearing before I make any suggestions.

Also, can you attach a picture of the setup? Setup is very important when comparing one speaker to another, are they in the same position?

In addition, from your description it might be possible that you have the speakers wired out-of-phase. Please double check that you have the speaker cable on all the speakers going from positive to positive and negative to negative.

Thanks in advance!
 
N

newtoitall

Junior Audioholic
Hi Dave,

Thanks for getting back to me, I asumed a personal e-mail but this will do fine.

Just to be sure I double checked my wiring and the speakers are all in phase.

I am not completly familiar with all the terms that are used to describe a sound, so please forgive me if I misled you with the wrong terms.

I find the Axioms high end to be smoother?? and the midrange to be a little more audible than in the Ascends, actually I don't find there is enough high end in the Axioms.

With the Ascends the treble is very high especially with female voices like Diana Krall, Patricia Barber and Sarah McLachlan.The SSSs are to my ears to hissy???
The bass is definitely there as well, it just seems that there is something missing in the middle that I hear in the Axioms.
I wish I could explain better.

Thanks for listening,
Frank
 
KC23

KC23

Audioholic
What is the cost difference? Seems they are close enough to let that decide for you.

I have M60ti axioms. You bring up what I like about my axioms. Balance between highs, mids and lows. It seems you can find stuff with better highs and/or lows, but to find one that has better balance than axiom ... that is the trick.
 
D

davef

Audioholic Intern
Hi Frank,

I think you have done a good job describing what you are hearing.

It has been a while since I listened to the M22 but based on lots of feedback, I am a bit surprised at what you describe.

If I may ask, what receiver are you using? How high off the ground are the 340 SE?

Also, please send me an email with the serial numbers off of the speakers -- I want to check the response curves.

Regardless, spend some quality time with both speakers, I would say at least 25 hours or more dedicated to each. Try to avoid constant switching back and forth -- perhaps dedicate 1 week of listening only to the 340 SE and another week dedicated to the Axioms. Allow yourself to become familiar with both speakers (back and forth comparisons can really throw off your frame of reference). This will allow you to better understand what type of sound you prefer.

Also, please remove the grilles on the 340 SE and visually inspect the components for any sign of damage. Do you know if Canadian customs performed an inspection on the speakers?

Please send me that email when you have the time...

Take care!
 
N

Nick250

Audioholic Samurai
newtoitall said:
Hi Dave,

Thanks for getting back to me, I asumed a personal e-mail but this will do fine.

Just to be sure I double checked my wiring and the speakers are all in phase.

I am not completly familiar with all the terms that are used to describe a sound, so please forgive me if I misled you with the wrong terms.

I find the Axioms high end to be smoother?? and the midrange to be a little more audible than in the Ascends, actually I don't find there is enough high end in the Axioms.

With the Ascends the treble is very high especially with female voices like Diana Krall, Patricia Barber and Sarah McLachlan.The SSSs are to my ears to hissy???
The bass is definitely there as well, it just seems that there is something missing in the middle that I hear in the Axioms.
I wish I could explain better.

Thanks for listening,
Frank
Toeing the speaker in or out a few degrees can have an audible impact on the highs. Toe in more bright, toe out less bright. Another variable to bear in mind.

Nick
 
N

newtoitall

Junior Audioholic
Nick,
I tried toeing in and back out, a little differance but not much.

Dave,
The serial #s are xxxxxxxxx and xx and I have been listening with the grills off, I havent noticed any damage.

I have the Ascends a little high at 39 inches to the tweeter and the Axioms are lower to bring the tweeters to the same level as the Ascends. This is about 5 inches above ear level in the listening position.

I am using a Yamaha RXV 2500 that I borrowed the local shop until they get a 2600 in, but from what others have said here the 2500 should do me fine.

I am going to continue listening and see what happens.

Thanks,
Frank
 
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S

silversurfer

Senior Audioholic
newtoitall said:
Nick,
I tried toeing in and back out, a little differance but not much.

Dave,
The serial #s are 93502183 and 4 and I have been listening with the grills off, I havent noticed any damage.

I have the Ascends a little high at 39 inches to the tweeter and the Axioms are lower to bring the tweeters to the same level as the Ascends. This is about 5 inches above ear level in the listening position.

I am using a Yamaha RXV 2500 that I borrowed the local shop until they get a 2600 in, but from what others have said here the 2500 should do me fine.

I am going to continue listening and see what happens.

Thanks,
Frank
Do you have the Yamaha's EQ system turned off? The Ascends are also bi-wireable, do you still have the jumpers between the sets of terminals in place?
 

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