AVR decision time (first system): RX-V663, Denon 1909, Pioneer VSX

[Porschefan]

I'm putting together my first HT/sound system and the next step is to decide on a receiver. I got a great deal on a set (barely) used set of Axiom speakers: M22 V2's, VP150 and QS4's, plus a cheap Polk subwoofer (RM6000), thrown in with the Axioms. So those are going to be what I start with.

Also have ordered the Philips 52" LCD on sale at Costco, after reading the long thread here. ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=981647&referrerid=7997279 ). It seems like a safe bet because of Costco's liberal 90-day return policy. At $1,800 it is a bit of a stretch on my budget, but it seemed that I would have a hard time getting something that size/quality for any less.

So now it's time to pick the receiver. I had pretty much narrowed it down to the Yamaha RX-V663 or the Denon 1909 as units that would have all the latest bells and whistles and provide a good beginning level of quality. I went to the Magnolia room at the local (LA area) BB with a fistful of different CD's yesterday to see what I learn. It was a lot of fun. They didn't have any Axioms (of course) so I'll have to wait until I get everything together before I'll even have a chance to audition them. They only had the Denon 1909 and the salesmen suggested I compare it with the Pioneer VSX-01TXH, which was priced at somewhere around $800.00. They don't have any Yamaha's so unfortunately I couldn't compare that one. In my comparison's I found that the speakers I liked best, in my price range were Klipsch W-35's and I mostly stuck with them comparing the Pioneeer and the Denon. My impression was that the Pioneer had a very slightly "warmer" feel than the Denon, but nothing so dramatic that I would necessarily choose it over the Denon, especially at the $100+ price differential. After I had established that, I played around with a few more combinations and I was very impressed with the Denon 3808 ci mated up with a pair of Def Tech BP7002BLA speakers. This combo sounded slightly better at any volume, but when cranked up it seemed very obvious to me that you do get a LOT more when you spend about 3X as much! Very tempting... Maybe I should give up this hobby before I've gone too far!

I'm going to try and audition the Y. 663. One thing about that receiver is that it is significantly cheaper than the Denon 1909. Like $375 vs. $650. The Yamaha certainly has a lot of supporters here and in other forums. I've also seen quite a number of posts from Pioneer fans, who have mentioned the VSX-1018AH-K, which at $600 is in the same general price range. The Pioneer I listened to at BB was a higher-priced model.

I know there are other threads here on these receivers and I'm in the process of working my way through them. There's a good one comparing the Yamaha and the Denon, but not the Pioneer.

I'm throwing this out here in the hopes of getting some succinct comments from people who might be familiar with all three of these receivers and in the hopes of avoiding any gotcha's.

TIA for any comments/advice.

--------------------
Stephen Porter
LA, CA

 

[Adam]

Hi, Stephen. IMO, the Yamaha 663, Pioneer 1018 (or VSX-01), and the Denon 1909 are likely very comparible in sound quality. It's entirely possible that the Pioneer sounded "warmer" because of the equalizer settings that were being used. The thing that I would suggest that you focus on for now is the list of features in each receiver and if they have what you want/need. A few things come to mind at the moment.

1. One "gotcha" that can come up later on is the presence or lack of pre-amp outputs, which would play a role if you decide to add an external amp (or two...or three ). The Yamaha and the Pioneer (either model) have pre-amp outputs, but the Denon 1909 does not.

2. Also, you can check if they have the number of inputs/outputs that you want, such as HDMI. The Yamaha has 2 HDMI inputs, the Pioneer and Denon both have 3. You can always add an external switcher later on, but it's just one more thing to buy.

3. All of those units have auto setup systems (that will set speaker levels, equalizer settings, and such). The Denon allows you to use up to six locations in your room to set up the system, but I'd have to look up the others (I think the Pioneer is just one, but I'm not positive). Just something to think about if that stuff is important to you. I really liked how my Pioneer 1015 set the equalization for my speakers.

Adam

 

[Buddy17]

i have been researching a lot lately through the forums, and almost posted up the same comparison. I hope more people join in. It seems as though most have basically the same features, but each has its own advantages. I don't know much about the Denon line, but i have been researching the pioneer's/yamahas quite a bit...how does the 1018 compare to the vsx01/03 and other elite models such as the 90 or 91??

 

[Adam]

Buddy, the following caught my attention when I was thinking about getting the 1018 or the VSX-01:

1. The 1018 has white leds in the front panel display, whereas the VSX-01 has orangish leds.

2. The 1018 doesn't have a cover over the front panel jacks, whereas the VSX-01 does.

3. The VSX-01 has 12v trigger outputs. The 1018 doesn't.

4. The VSX-01 has THX certification and surround processing. The 1018 doesn't.

Those stood out to me, but I was looking for specific things. The 1018 seems like a real nice unit to me, but I want 12v triggers and the THX sound processing. I do prefer the white leds on the front display of the 1018, though.

 

[jmgonza6]

I was wondering the exact same thing Buddy. Adam, are those the only things different? How does build quality and amp section compare to the Elite series? That 12v trigger would be nice. What is so special about the THX surround processing? From what I can gather is it equalizes and calibrates more effeciently at higher and lower volumes. Like the THX select 2 is more geared toward a small theater and THX Ultra 2 is more geared towards larger dedicated set-ups. Am I correct? I cant stand the orange LED's, love the crisp white ones tho! Cheers

Joe

 

[GlocksRock]

The only difference between THX Select 2 and THX Ultra 2 is the amps power, besides that there is no difference, and while I used to have a THX Select 2 certified receiver, I rarely used the THX post processing features, and now I always use the standard dolby digital or dts track.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'll cast my one vote for the Yamaha 663.

I think Denon is great. Practically all my gears are Denon. But Denon doesn't get any extra points when it comes to Bang-for-the-buck.

For example, The Yamaha 663 and Harman Kardon 247 both have Preamp Outputs. Yet the Denon 2309 doesn't even have Preamp Outputs.

 

[GlocksRock]

I'll also cast a vote for the 663.

 

[jmgonza6]

Ya the V663 is the one I am leaning heavily on so that I can spend the extra coin on other toys. It really has everything I need besides three HDMI inputs. But thats really not an issue. I cant seem to find out if the Yammy is HDMI 1.3a repeating or switching. Can anyone tell me this? I read that 1.3a repeating is neccessary if I want to send my video & HD audio from my PS3 via HDMI. Is this true? Thanks and sorry to hijack your thread PorscheFan, I hope the answers Im getting will help you. Cheers.

Joe

 

[GlocksRock]

the 663 is has repeating HDMI inputs, it will pass audio.

 

[jmgonza6]

Well you have me sold. I see you have the V663 with Def Techs, those are on my radar for the next purchase. How are they? Thanks.

Joe

 

[GlocksRock]

Which model of def techs are you considering? I have them in both of my systems and they sound fantastic, but I can assure you the room you put them in, and how they are placed makes all the difference. They sound amazing and have such a huge soundstage, especially considering their size. Even though the supertowers have built in subs, I still highly reccomend getting a stand alone sub.

 

[jmgonza6]

Ya I dont like speakers that have full on subs in them, I have a CS Ultra and a PSB SubSeries 5i that provide all the bass I and my pictures can handle . I really dont have a model Im specifically looking at, but I have heard a set of towers at my dads condo and they are AWESOME. To my ears they have the same sound as my Energy C-500 and C-C300 but its when they get to the higher volumes that they really pull way ahead of the Energies. In a room that is 20' x 35' x 10' ceilings which would be a good choice. My Energies fill the room pretty adequetly as is and that is with my older Onkyo. Cheers.

Joe

 

[GlocksRock]

I have a set of BP8s for sale, but I don't have boxes to ship them in... if you really want them, I guess you could get some boxes from def tech and I could ship them.

 

[bandphan]

Look hard at the vsx01

 

[blued888]

What's the purpose of the 12v trigger outputs on the VSX-01TXH?

 

[jmgonza6]

Arent 12v triggers so that you can turn on various products such as external amps, electric screens, and projectors just by turning on your receiver? I pulled the trigger on the Yammy. I figured the extra coin can go some where else. New speakers perhaps... Thanks you guys.

Joe

 

[bandphan]

IIRC the 01 has the new gui interface, the triggers(yes for automating) and good power above its rating The auto setup on pioneer does better than yammy imo.
edit-the pc output for the auto eq can be a valued tool for room issues..

 

[Porschefan]

Ya the V663 is the one I am leaning heavily on so that I can spend the extra coin on other toys.... Thanks and sorry to hijack your thread PorscheFan, I hope the answers Im getting will help you. Cheers.

Joe

No problem/no hijack, Joe. I'm leaning very heavily towards the 663 for the same reason: I can use the budget differential towards a PS3 for the Blu-Ray component and at my level of the game it's probably best to get something put together and get started so I can use it as a reference.

.... I pulled the trigger on the Yammy. I figured the extra coin can go some where else. New speakers perhaps... Thanks you guys.

Joe

Joe, where did you buy it and at what price?

TIA.

Stephen Porter
LA

 

[jmgonza6]

I PM'ed you, dont know the rules on posting prices or vendors, so I figured I would be safe. Good luck man. I actually got the HTR-6160, same receiver just a newer model.

Joe