AV123 "Explosive" Prototype "Klipsched"

William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Only in principle, and design, not performance.
 
Klipschhead302

Klipschhead302

Senior Audioholic
Only in principle, and design, not performance.
I'm not sure where Mark Schifter got the design, Mark Seaton hasn't responded to my query yet but in the end, I like it, I really do. I bought it for the price not expecting much and it sat for years and when I put the parts together and put it with a pair of Elac B6's I was stunned at how tight and dynamic it was.

If I can find out the proper information I would like to put the right amplifier and driver in there eventually.
 
djreef

djreef

Audioholic Chief
I'm not sure where Mark Schifter got the design, Mark Seaton hasn't responded to my query yet but in the end, I like it, I really do. I bought it for the price not expecting much and it sat for years and when I put the parts together and put it with a pair of Elac B6's I was stunned at how tight and dynamic it was.

If I can find out the proper information I would like to put the right amplifier and driver in there eventually.
Give Mark some time. He's all over the place. Hell, it takes him days sometimes to respond to folks who want to give him thousands of dollars.

DJ
 
Klipschhead302

Klipschhead302

Senior Audioholic
Give Mark some time. He's all over the place. Hell, it takes him days sometimes to respond to folks who want to give him thousands of dollars.

DJ
Agreed, with the show and everything I expect he is running around like crazy this weekend.



.
 
M

Mark Seaton

Junior Audioholic
I'm not sure where Mark Schifter got the design, Mark Seaton hasn't responded to my query yet but in the end, I like it, I really do. I bought it for the price not expecting much and it sat for years and when I put the parts together and put it with a pair of Elac B6's I was stunned at how tight and dynamic it was.

If I can find out the proper information I would like to put the right amplifier and driver in there eventually.
Hi KH,

When I quickly responded to your thread, in my post-show sleep deprivation I scanned the pics and missed the question about if I had anything to do with the x-plosive design. Yes, this was entirely my design and an outgrowth of the original Terraform prototypes that ended up in the basement of the to-be-founder of iRule/OnControls:

The BMF was designed first, which used a similar 6th order bandpass design but with passive radiators for the high and low frequency tuning.

I grabbed 2 of the prototypes from the liquidation sale and one drives the daily office system while the other has cycled in and out of a system at home for when ever I'm not tinkering with a prototype. At the time only one other company, James Loudspeakers, was doing somewhat similar designs where they offer some 4th order bandpass designs (sealed rear chamber, PR in front of the driver).

The x-plosive was a super-budget alternate to what I was working on getting to production in the massive Terraform XL subs many have seen pictures of:


The first long and low units above did work very well, with the x-plosive also working quite well. The higher density designs were both hugely gratifying to see the designs test out exactly as the multi-part models predicted, and disappointing to find the passive radiators and surrounds available at the time were not quite up to the task of such high output per volume. The x-plosive was the biggest disappointment of the stillborn designs I did for AV123 as this was ready to go with just a few reasonable cost parts to tool up to avoid the issues we found with the big Terraform XL. This was a stellar performer and I had an extremely capable 10" XBL^2 woofer sourced for it. I actually still have a couple more on a shelf here if you are interested. It needed very modest filtering to be very flat from ~18Hz - 120Hz and sounds very clean.

If you missed my response on our forum, I did respond:
It's likely to be a bit peaky in response (with the ULW10 driver) unless you get really lucky with parameters, but it will make sound and is tuned around 18-19Hz. Measure about 1" in front of the PR and then about 12" in front on the floor to see what it's doing.
Alternately you could easily just remove the 10" woofer and install a 12" driver appropriate for the internal volume of the cabinet which you can calc very easily. The vent tuning would shift down a few Hz with the front chamber opened to the driver, and should perform very well. This is basically what I did with the Terraform D18 subs I later offered for sale using the above pictured Terraform XL cabinets.

That quick trip down memory lane certainly gives me some ideas about re-visiting some old design ideas with new suppliers available.
 
Klipschhead302

Klipschhead302

Senior Audioholic
Mark,

Wow, now that was a response!! I love the design of the Explosive and really like the output as it sits right now. Maybe down the road I could start thinking about going to a 12" driver and possibly upgrade the amplifier.

Hmmmm how much would you want for one of the drivers?

Thanks for the detailed response Mark, that was awesome. :)
 
M

Mark Seaton

Junior Audioholic
Mark,

Wow, now that was a response!! I love the design of the Explosive and really like the output as it sits right now. Maybe down the road I could start thinking about going to a 12" driver and possibly upgrade the amplifier.

Hmmmm how much would you want for one of the drivers?

Thanks for the detailed response Mark, that was awesome. :)
You're welcome. The big question on if it's performing as it should is where the front PR is tuned to. You likely need it higher than the Klipsch PR sets it, but a few measurements with the mic near field will tell all. The bandpass design does require a more careful balance than a typical sealed or ported box else you can get a peaky response. Modest mismatch is easily corrected with simple PEQ if available.

Let me get eyes on a driver to confirm I have one available and I'll PM or e-mail you.
 
Klipschhead302

Klipschhead302

Senior Audioholic
You're welcome. The big question on if it's performing as it should is where the front PR is tuned to. You likely need it higher than the Klipsch PR sets it, but a few measurements with the mic near field will tell all. The bandpass design does require a more careful balance than a typical sealed or ported box else you can get a peaky response. Modest mismatch is easily corrected with simple PEQ if available.

Let me get eyes on a driver to confirm I have one available and I'll PM or e-mail you.
Mark sounds good, I have a lot to learn, so should I go back to using the plastic passive radiator?
 
M

Mark Seaton

Junior Audioholic
Mark sounds good, I have a lot to learn, so should I go back to using the plastic passive radiator?
Without knowing any info off hand about the Klipsch PR, we'd be guessing, and while we could get creative attempting to figure from the product it was in, you have a microphone which will give you a more useful answer. Set a moderate level that creates some excursion but it remains linear. Place the microphone in front of the PR with a finger's width between the cone and mic tip, and take a measurement from say 15-160Hz.

My expectation is that you will get much more upper bass extension with the original PR.
 
Klipschhead302

Klipschhead302

Senior Audioholic
Without knowing any info off hand about the Klipsch PR, we'd be guessing, and while we could get creative attempting to figure from the product it was in, you have a microphone which will give you a more useful answer. Set a moderate level that creates some excursion but it remains linear. Place the microphone in front of the PR with a finger's width between the cone and mic tip, and take a measurement from say 15-160Hz.

My expectation is that you will get much more upper bass extension with the original PR.
I'll get on it tonight, let me know about the driver ok?
 

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