Audyssey commentary.

[jostenmeat]

Just curious, why are all 8 measurements needed ? I have gone to taking a completley different approach, I only take one(1) Audyssey measurement from the place I will be listening from. mainly to pick up the speaker's distances. Then I use manual setting and an SPL meter to set each speaker level. I like a little boost in the subwoofer so I set the SPL level accordingly. maybe I am doing it wrong, but I like the end result

Good Luck,

Midcow2

Read my first post in this thread. However, not knowing what exact iteration of AS you are using, there is an AS version that only does basic distance and level. Otherwise, it is always recommended that I have seen, whether straight from AS/Chris, or other consumers who corroborated with their own subjective results, to use all 8 measurements.

 

[Davemcc]

From that first post there is the setup guide by giomania
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=14456895&postcount=5701

Also, the Denon guru batpig has a page for AS
http://batpigworld.com/audyssey.html

I saw the first guide. I think that's pretty much what I did but I didn't run all 8 positions. I didn't see the second one. I'll follow that when I have more time. Thanks.

Anyways, for movies, one of the surprise benefits for me was how much clearer dialogue became at the extremes of my seating.

I noticed this as well. The vocal range become much more prominent in theater mode. However, on music sources, this translated into a vocal prominence that became prematurely harsh or bright as I turned the volume up. I also noticed that AS seemed to be almost 5 dB louder in usual material, i.e. -15 dB with AS seems to match about -10 dB without AS and the vocals seemed much louder than that.

 

[Davemcc]

Just curious, why are all 8 measurements needed ? I have gone to taking a completely different approach, I only take one(1) Audyssey measurement from the place I will be listening from. mainly to pick up the speaker's distances. Then I use manual setting and an SPL meter to set each speaker level. I like a little boost in the subwoofer so I set the SPL level accordingly. maybe I am doing it wrong, but I like the end result

Good Luck,

Midcow2

In my case, I must take a minimum of 3 samples. If I wanted to calibrate for 4 seats, I must do six samples. The DTC-9.8 does have a setup page with test tones for manual SPL readings that also sets the universal speaker level settings. Despite all that, I still do a lot of manual tweaking by ear.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It is very interesting how many of us differ in opinion, which is cool.

There is no right or wrong.

It doesn't hurt to try to improve on your sound - room treatments, AS, different speakers, etc.

And after spending hours and hours of experimentation, you have to figure out which sounds the best to you in the end.

For movies, I only use the discrete DD, DTS, DTS-HD, TrueHD, PCM. The center dialogue has always sounded very focused and clear to me.

For me, AS did not help.

But to others, AS has helped.

 

[lsiberian]

It is very interesting how many of us differ in opinion, which is cool.

There is no right or wrong.

It doesn't hurt to try to improve on your sound - room treatments, AS, different speakers, etc.

And after spending hours and hours of experimentation, you have to figure out which sounds the best to you in the end.

For movies, I only use the discrete DD, DTS, DTS-HD, TrueHD, PCM. The center dialogue has always sounded very focused and clear to me.

For me, AS did not help.

But to others, AS has helped.

You hit the nail on the head.

 

[lsiberian]

I agree with that.

I also think that if it is a waste for music, then it is also a waste for movies.

I mean how much could AS improve on the movies? Does it give you better surround effects?

I find it improves the surround effects and dialogue in my ears.

I find it is unecessary for the music I listen too. It can't hurt, but I find it's benefits better in movies.

 

[lsiberian]

I highly disagree.

I listen mostly to 2 channel stereo music. I don't see the need for audyssey in my listening habits.

?

I've found trying to setup multiple listening areas isn't best in some versions of audyssey. Though I know the top versions handle this well.

 

[murl]

AS killed the Bass in my two mains (BP2000TLs), I didn't like it and did some of my own redneck tweaking afterwards. AcuDefTechGuy do you have any advice on adjusting the subs in my mains? I am very new to not using a dedicated sub channel and finding it difficult to find something I really like.

 

[dronezero]

When I initially ran Audyssey, I had to run it for a minimum of three positions due to Integra's design. Because I only have one good seating location in my primitive multi-use living room, I left the mic in the same position for all three samples. Technically, it should get three identical readings and be optimized for at least that seat. In the past, I tried Audyssey for my three main seating locations but because two of those seats are outside of the space between the speakers, those samples were buggered from the start and created a bad reverb effect. I haven't found a way to run Audyssey to make it more desirable than just running straight through.

That is actually the exact opposite of what you are supposed to do. As somebody else stated you want to take the maximum number of readings possible and you want to spread the measurements out so that they are at least 1.5 feet apart.

Just curious, why are all 8 measurements needed ? I have gone to taking a completely different approach, I only take one(1) Audyssey measurement from the place I will be listening from. mainly to pick up the speaker's distances. Then I use manual setting and an SPL meter to set each speaker level. I like a little boost in the subwoofer so I set the SPL level accordingly. maybe I am doing it wrong, but I like the end result

Good Luck,

Midcow2

From my basic understanding Audyssey doesn't try to simply eq one position. It tries to measure major issues of the room and correct for those problems. The more measurements you take the better idea that Audyssey has of what is happening in the room. For a similar reason you want to spread your measurements out so that Audyssey can get the feel for what is going on throughout the room and not just correcting at the microphone position.

I personally like using Audyssey for both 2 channel and HT. On the NAD T175 you flip Audyssey on and off while listening to music, and I have found that it helps to even out the bloated bass that I had. I had also had a nasty dip in the midbass region that Audyssey seemed to help somewhat. The imagining in both 2 channel and surround is greatly improved though I did not see the improvement in soundstage size that others have said they see.

Also I have found that the Audyssey and NAD curves are unlistenable. The flat curve is the only one that is worthwhile for me.

edit: I am also a bit suprised that some of you are tweaking the distance and speaker level settings afterwards. I can understand turing off the DSP or changing the crossover settings, but Audyssey has to be more accurate with distance/speaker level than what you could accomplish with a typical cheap sound level meter/tapemeasure.

 

[lsiberian]

That is actually the exact opposite of what you are supposed to do. As somebody else stated you want to take the maximum number of readings possible and you want to spread the measurements out so that they are at least 1.5 feet apart.

From my basic understanding Audyssey doesn't try to simply eq one position. It tries to measure major issues of the room and correct for those problems. The more measurements you take the better idea that Audyssey has of what is happening in the room. For a similar reason you want to spread your measurements out so that Audyssey can get the feel for what is going on throughout the room and not just correcting at the microphone position.

I personally like using Audyssey for both 2 channel and HT. On the NAD T175 you flip Audyssey on and off while listening to music, and I have found that it helps to even out the bloated bass that I had. I had also had a nasty dip in the midbass region that Audyssey seemed to help somewhat. The imagining in both 2 channel and surround is greatly improved though I did not see the improvement in soundstage size that others have said they see.

Also I have found that the Audyssey and NAD curves are unlistenable. The flat curve is the only one that is worthwhile for me.

edit: I am also a bit suprised that some of you are tweaking the distance and speaker level settings afterwards. I can understand turing off the DSP or changing the crossover settings, but Audyssey has to be more accurate with distance/speaker level than what you could accomplish with a typical cheap sound level meter/tapemeasure.

This isn't always the case. In fact I found it to have the most trouble with a rear placed sub.

 

[JLMEMT]

This isn't always the case. In fact I found it to have the most trouble with a rear placed sub.

Does the microphone have a clear shot to that sub? Or is it bouncing off of something?

I wouldn't expect that it can get an accurate distance if it is reading reflected waves.

You could say that is the negative of the system, but is it? If you truely have the mic where your ears would be isn't it going to process it as you would? Meaning that you are probably getting a delay from that sub as well.



I think from what I have read that in many cases the people that don't like it have gotten used to something other than what AS is trying to do. I am not saying that is right or wrong. You don't pay for all of this stuff to have it sound bad to you, even if it would sound great to someone else! But at the same time you can't expect AS to know what you want and be able to make it sound like that. Some have said that more curve options would be nice, and that would be the best they could do towards that end I think.


I am reserving judgement on mine until I have "real" speakers to try it out with. It did make set up fairly easy, so I liked that.

I think in my case that I will "learn" to like it. But I have not been grooming my ears and taste near as much as many of you have. If I had I would likely be in the same boat.

 

[JLMEMT]

In my case, I must take a minimum of 3 samples. If I wanted to calibrate for 4 seats, I must do six samples. The DTC-9.8 does have a setup page with test tones for manual SPL readings that also sets the universal speaker level settings. Despite all that, I still do a lot of manual tweaking by ear.

I think that you have a personal taste that you have gotten used to and AS just can't quite get there for you. I think that will happen a fair ammount.

In Midcow's case I think the cause may be the same with a different way to the end.


I think that for a fairly new "audiophile", audiophyte or whatever you want to call "us", this is a pretty good inclusion to get a better set up than what likely would have been done prior. I do not believe that it can fix every situation and is the very best thing possible.
For me personally, I would likely not have put in the nesacarry time to do a "proper setup" the "old fashioned way". I probably would have gotten half way through it and decided that was good enough, only to decide maybe a year later that I should do it right.


I know in my case with the crappy satelites I currently have that changing positions still made a large difference for me. They are still not perfect, I will wait for my new speakers to do that, but I worried more about proper placement and a little less about ease of placement and they results were noticable. I can't wait to set up some "good" speakers properly and hear those!!

I am afraid that you guys have me hooked!

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I find AS to be pretty useful and it improves the sound of my system with music. Results are different with just a small change of mic position and sometimes I have to run it numerous times with mic position changes before it gets the sound I am looking for.

It seems to always mess up my center and makes dialog very hard to understand. Movies sound best with it off, music best with it on.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

AS killed the Bass in my two mains (BP2000TLs), I didn't like it and did some of my own redneck tweaking afterwards. AcuDefTechGuy do you have any advice on adjusting the subs in my mains? I am very new to not using a dedicated sub channel and finding it difficult to find something I really like.

Most people don't recommend turning that Sub volume knob beyond the 11 o'clock position.

All of my built-in subs are set to the 11 o'clock position (BP7000s, BP7001s, CLR3000).

Again, there is no "Right" or "Wrong" here.

Some materials are bass-heavy, while others are way too light on the bass.

I'm happy with that 11 o'clock position on the bass volume overall.

I think GlocksRock also set his BP7001s & CLR3000 to 11 o'clock.

 

[nibhaz]

I’ve drank the AS Kool-aid and I like it! IMO AS worked just as it should for my set up in my room.

With that being said, I don’t think that it is a one size fits all solution for everyone. This is especially true if one has done a lot a manual tweaking of their system in effort to achieve a particular sound that they like. This will be even truer if the FR response of said tweaking does not match one of the AS target curves.

However, it does appear that many have had success with AS, and that based on measurements it does do what it supposed to do in correcting FR, in relation to the target curves. Now whether you like the corrected FR or not is a totally personal matter, and I think this is where the divisions in opinion arise.

When it comes to the Flat target curve, it might take some time to acclimate yourself to the sound, especially so, if you gotten used or enjoyed the FR artifacts your room was injecting into your sound. If you’ve already reached audio bliss, then you probably aren’t going to like what AS does.


Audioholics article on AS here.

Another Audioholics article that does a pretty good job of explaining why it imperative to take all of the allowed measurement point, because of how AS calculates the FR correction.

 

[mperfct]

When it comes to the Flat target curve, it might take some time to acclimate yourself to the sound, especially so, if you gotten used or enjoyed the FR artifacts your room was injecting into your sound. If you’ve already reached audio bliss, then you probably aren’t going to like what AS does.

Audio bliss is what we're all after. Even if it is "wrong" by scientific methods. No one ever measures their ears and/or psychoacoustic abilities. If anything, that's the best place to start, before you spend one dollar on equipment.

 

[nibhaz]

Audio bliss is what we're all after. Even if it is "wrong" by scientific methods. No one ever measures their ears and/or psychoacoustic abilities. If anything, that's the best place to start, before you spend one dollar on equipment.

That’s pretty much the gist of what I was saying. Even though AS is based on research, it doesn’t mean that its output is going meet everyone’s taste in sound.

If there was only one target FR response for everyone, then we’d probably all own the same speakers as well.

 

[jostenmeat]

I think that for a fairly new "audiophile", audiophyte or whatever you want to call "us", this is a pretty good inclusion to get a better set up than what likely would have been done prior. I do not believe that it can fix every situation and is the very best thing possible.
For me personally, I would likely not have put in the nesacarry time to do a "proper setup" the "old fashioned way". I probably would have gotten half way through it and decided that was good enough, only to decide maybe a year later that I should do it right.

I like your posts! Perhaps*(?) there is still argument, outside of adjusting to particular taste, to use this tech as a possible addition to "old fashioned" calibration. What Audyssey can do where some "old fashioned" types might* fail is finding and taming ringing tones. If your room dimensions are such that, say, an 80hz wave bounces perfectly back and forth (ringing/overhanging), that will not necessarily show up at the listening position. It can be flat at one spot, but too strong in others. If you adjust for one single spot, you mess it up where that freq was perfectly fine. So, AS can do certain things that will help ALL positions in the room.

Still, even for a few who have calibrated for ONLY that one all-important spot, they have claimed that AS has done it just as well. OTOH, as evidenced by this thread, your mileage will definitely vary!!!

I know in my case with the crappy satelites I currently have that changing positions still made a large difference for me. They are still not perfect, I will wait for my new speakers to do that, but I worried more about proper placement and a little less about ease of placement and they results were noticable. I can't wait to set up some "good" speakers properly and hear those!!

I am afraid that you guys have me hooked!

This is an important point. AS is not the panacea. I've always described it like icing on the cake. In my limited experiences since I've recently joined in on this hobby, one of the neat things I've noticed is how drastically different speakers (ok, um, room interaction) will sound when just moving them away from the boundaries that extra foot or two. Also, AS is definitely NOT a substitute for treating first reflection points. The more that one can physically tame a room, the more AS' processing power might be applied to things a bit more out of the reach of a J6P consumer like me.

 

[dronezero]

This isn't always the case. In fact I found it to have the most trouble with a rear placed sub.

If the problem that you are having is that it is reporting the distance of the sub to be greater than what it actually is, the problem is likely do to your subwoofer having an electrical delay possibly from a low pass filter.

 

[Davemcc]

I think that you have a personal taste that you have gotten used to and AS just can't quite get there for you.

You're probably right about that. I think my musical preferences were set in stone about 1984.