
sts9fan
Banned
I was calling them testy!!
I think your right on.
I think your right on.
ETF is not much more useful than the Rives audio disc with a 1/3 octave resolution. Give me an ETF with 1\10 octave resolution and we are starting to get somewhere.Buckle-meister said:Aren't they?It makes complete sense that Audioholics use only what they themselves have tested and found to meet their criteria for quality and performance, but this should not prevent a truth from being spoken. Is it not a truth?
In addition, may I kindly enquire as to why Audioholics continues to promote the Rives Test CD 2 disc?In an article for a $75000 multi-room system?
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Are we to believe that it actually was used?
Let us compare the Rives Test CD 2 to the likes of ETF. I note ETF, but any equivalent program maybe assumed in its place:
With all due respect, how can Audioholics possibly promote the Rives Disc when an alternative like ETF exists?
- The Rives Disc requires that one either buys or already owns an SPL meter. So does ETF.
- The Rives Disc doesn't require a computer whereas ETF does, but considering that you're not reading this unless you have said computer, I'd say it's somewhat of a moot point.
- You need to buy (for only a modest amount of money) the Rives Disc to obtain results. You don't need to buy ETF as it maybe downloaded for free, but given that you'll need a couple of cables (if you don't already have them), the two'll tend to balance out and it's a moot point again.
- With the Rives disc, you get 31 tones specifically tailored to allow for the inaccuracies of the RS SPL meter. These tones cover the full frequency range from 20Hz to 20kHz in 1/3 octave intervals. You cannot determine any other frequencies and even if you could it'd take you a totally unrealistic amount of time to do so and plot the results, and the 1/3 octave tones are more or less useless for the lowest frequencies where you most want to know what's going on. With ETF, you can upload the file to correct for the RS meter's inaccuracies at no cost, and in 5 seconds flat you're presented not only with the entire frequency response from 20Hz to 20kHz in one continuous plot, but even with the freeware version of the program, you can obtain other useful parameters too.
I entirely agree.Clint DeBoer said:Well, our thought is that in a $75,000 system with acoustical consultation and RPG room acoustics you really wouldn't be sitting in there tweaking with an ETF system.
I must admit to being a little confused. Are you saying that after splashing out on a $75000 system with acoustical consultation and RPG room acoustics that you're going to use the Rives Test CD 2 to 'check bass integration'?Clint DeBoer said:The Rives CD is to check bass integration after everyone leaves... but hey, what do we know.
I have not attacked the system. I'm quite sure it has been setup incredibly well and sounds even better. I'm simply questioning why a product is being promoted:Clint DeBoer said:Let's try something new - for fun. You guys design a few systems and post them in the forum and we'll pick every little thing apart. It'll be great and you'll be very incentivized to do it again and again.
ETF provides a resolution greater than 1/10 octave. It'll also provide impulse response, low-frequency response, Full-range frequency response, low-frequency waterfall, RT-60 time, fractional octave response plots and much more besides, all within 5 seconds and the click of a mouse button.westcott said:ETF is not much more useful than the Rives audio disc with a 1/3 octave resolution. Give me an ETF with 1\10 octave resolution and we are starting to get somewhere.
It's called maintenance. If the end user moves stuff around, accidentally hit a sub level control, etc, he/she can at least baseline performance on their own to a reasonable extent without having to rely on the customer installer each time.I must admit to being a little confused. Are you saying that after splashing out on a $75000 system with acoustical consultation and RPG room acoustics that you're going to use the Rives Test CD 2 to 'check bass integration'?
Ah.gene said:It's called maintenance.
No doubt, but that's besides the point isn't it? I'm not advocating people use an LMS measuring technique as opposed to ETF's MLS. All I'm trying to fathom is why Audioholics doesn't gently nudge folk in the more productive direction of software such as ETF instead of the Rives Test CD 2 disc.gene said:If you really want to get down to it, forget ETF as I feel it is a limited tool. Go with a full LMS system instead. Though I doubt the average reader on this forum, let alone the end user will be well versed enough to use it accurately.![]()
Yes but again we are trying to keep things easy. Rives CD is a step up from using Avia for example and its easy enough for Joe 6 pack to pick up, use and get decent enough results to fix a problem they may have caused before calling in the big guns.You do agree that the former is more productive than the latter don't you?
I too am all for keeping things easy. Why complicate things when you don't have to? Unfortunately though, many folk buy the Rives Test CD 2 disc to use in conjunction with a PEQ they've just bought. If they'd just use something like ETF (or equivalent), they could sort out their frequency response much better. It really isn't difficult to setup ETF, and I for one am always more than happy to help with questions if I can. C'mon Gene; let us, you and I help all these people.gene said:Yes but again we are trying to keep things easy. Rives CD is a step up from using Avia for example and its easy enough for Joe 6 pack to pick up, use and get decent enough results to fix a problem they may have caused before calling in the big guns.
I'm not referring to the $75000 system here. As per the quote above, it's 'Joe 6 pack' that I'm more concerned with helping make the right decision to achieve the very best sound possible from his system without being unrealistic.gene said:Personally when I get lazy, which is more the case than not, I use my Sencore SP295C FFT analyzer to do quick and dirty real time measurements. I suppose we could have included this in the system, but again it requires a reasonable level of technical knowledge to use this device. The end user is likely not willing to invest in this tool, let alone want to be bothered on learning it.
Not a bad system though those Dyne's are severly dynamically limited compared to our selection and your system is for one room only whereas ours is a whole house. Not to mention you are only doing 5.1 and not taking advantage of any excellent post processing options such as PLIIx Music/Movie.5x dynaudio C1's = $12500
2 x rel stentor subs = $8000
1x arcam FMJ A32 with 7.1 module = 2500
3 x arcam p1 monoblocks = $5400
linn unidisk = $11000
Yamaha DPX-1300 projector = $12500
screen = $1000
acoustic consultant and treatment = $5000
then just hook up the unidisk to the projector and bob's your uncle!
with the $18000 left over i'd recommend a vacation to hawaii in the winter time. lovely sunsets.
Most time windowing approaches like MLSSA, FFT, or TEF tend to make the curves smoother than they really are and make it difficult to garner good results. Their are some very expensive testing equipment that will provide 15ms time windows or longer but as Gene pointed out, not really readily available or cost effective for the average Joe.Buckle-meister said:ETF provides a resolution greater than 1/10 octave. It'll also provide impulse response, low-frequency response, Full-range frequency response, low-frequency waterfall, RT-60 time, fractional octave response plots and much more besides, all within 5 seconds and the click of a mouse button.
Rives Test CD 2 provides 31 tones.
You are a gentleman Sir, but really, there's no need to.westcott said:I apologize...