Audioholics $75K Recommended Home Theater System

[sts9fan]

I was calling them testy!!

I think your right on.

 

[Audioholics]

Well, our thought is that in a $75,000 system with acoustical consultation and RPG room acoustics you really wouldn't be sitting in there tweaking with an ETF system. The Rives CD is to check bass integration after everyone leaves... but hey, what do we know.

Let's try something new - for fun. You guys design a few systems and post them in the forum and we'll pick every little thing apart. It'll be great and you'll be very incentivized to do it again and again.

- testy

 

[westcott]

Aren't they? It makes complete sense that Audioholics use only what they themselves have tested and found to meet their criteria for quality and performance, but this should not prevent a truth from being spoken. Is it not a truth?

In addition, may I kindly enquire as to why Audioholics continues to promote the Rives Test CD 2 disc? In an article for a $75000 multi-room system? Are we to believe that it actually was used?

Let us compare the Rives Test CD 2 to the likes of ETF. I note ETF, but any equivalent program maybe assumed in its place:

1. The Rives Disc requires that one either buys or already owns an SPL meter. So does ETF.
2. The Rives Disc doesn't require a computer whereas ETF does, but considering that you're not reading this unless you have said computer, I'd say it's somewhat of a moot point.
3. You need to buy (for only a modest amount of money) the Rives Disc to obtain results. You don't need to buy ETF as it maybe downloaded for free, but given that you'll need a couple of cables (if you don't already have them), the two'll tend to balance out and it's a moot point again.
4. With the Rives disc, you get 31 tones specifically tailored to allow for the inaccuracies of the RS SPL meter. These tones cover the full frequency range from 20Hz to 20kHz in 1/3 octave intervals. You cannot determine any other frequencies and even if you could it'd take you a totally unrealistic amount of time to do so and plot the results, and the 1/3 octave tones are more or less useless for the lowest frequencies where you most want to know what's going on. With ETF, you can upload the file to correct for the RS meter's inaccuracies at no cost, and in 5 seconds flat you're presented not only with the entire frequency response from 20Hz to 20kHz in one continuous plot, but even with the freeware version of the program, you can obtain other useful parameters too.

With all due respect, how can Audioholics possibly promote the Rives Disc when an alternative like ETF exists?

ETF is not much more useful than the Rives audio disc with a 1/3 octave resolution. Give me an ETF with 1\10 octave resolution and we are starting to get somewhere.

 

[Buckle-meister]

Well, our thought is that in a $75,000 system with acoustical consultation and RPG room acoustics you really wouldn't be sitting in there tweaking with an ETF system.

I entirely agree.

The Rives CD is to check bass integration after everyone leaves... but hey, what do we know.

I must admit to being a little confused. Are you saying that after splashing out on a $75000 system with acoustical consultation and RPG room acoustics that you're going to use the Rives Test CD 2 to 'check bass integration'?

Let's try something new - for fun. You guys design a few systems and post them in the forum and we'll pick every little thing apart. It'll be great and you'll be very incentivized to do it again and again.

I have not attacked the system. I'm quite sure it has been setup incredibly well and sounds even better. I'm simply questioning why a product is being promoted:

a. In a setup that one would hardly think warrants its use and

b. When a far superior product at an equivalent price is easily and freely available.

ETF is not much more useful than the Rives audio disc with a 1/3 octave resolution. Give me an ETF with 1\10 octave resolution and we are starting to get somewhere.

ETF provides a resolution greater than 1/10 octave. It'll also provide impulse response, low-frequency response, Full-range frequency response, low-frequency waterfall, RT-60 time, fractional octave response plots and much more besides, all within 5 seconds and the click of a mouse button.

Rives Test CD 2 provides 31 tones.

 

[gene]

I must admit to being a little confused. Are you saying that after splashing out on a $75000 system with acoustical consultation and RPG room acoustics that you're going to use the Rives Test CD 2 to 'check bass integration'?

It's called maintenance. If the end user moves stuff around, accidentally hit a sub level control, etc, he/she can at least baseline performance on their own to a reasonable extent without having to rely on the customer installer each time.

If you really want to get down to it, forget ETF as I feel it is a limited tool. Go with a full LMS system instead. Though I doubt the average reader on this forum, let alone the end user will be well versed enough to use it accurately.

 

[Buckle-meister]

It's called maintenance.

Ah.

If you really want to get down to it, forget ETF as I feel it is a limited tool. Go with a full LMS system instead. Though I doubt the average reader on this forum, let alone the end user will be well versed enough to use it accurately.

No doubt, but that's besides the point isn't it? I'm not advocating people use an LMS measuring technique as opposed to ETF's MLS. All I'm trying to fathom is why Audioholics doesn't gently nudge folk in the more productive direction of software such as ETF instead of the Rives Test CD 2 disc.

You do agree that the former is more productive than the latter don't you?

 

[gene]

You do agree that the former is more productive than the latter don't you?

Yes but again we are trying to keep things easy. Rives CD is a step up from using Avia for example and its easy enough for Joe 6 pack to pick up, use and get decent enough results to fix a problem they may have caused before calling in the big guns.

Personally when I get lazy, which is more the case than not, I use my Sencore SP295C FFT analyzer to do quick and dirty real time measurements. I suppose we could have included this in the system, but again it requires a reasonable level of technical knowledge to use this device. The end user is likely not willing to invest in this tool, let alone want to be bothered on learning it.

 

[Bevan]

yeah, o.k, here's my system to pick apart

5x dynaudio C1's = $12500
2 x rel stentor subs = $8000
1x arcam FMJ A32 with 7.1 module = 2500
3 x arcam p1 monoblocks = $5400
linn unidisk = $11000
Yamaha DPX-1300 projector = $12500
screen = $1000
acoustic consultant and treatment = $5000

then just hook up the unidisk to the projector and bob's your uncle!

with the $18000 left over i'd recommend a vacation to hawaii in the winter time. lovely sunsets.

b

 

[Buckle-meister]

Yes but again we are trying to keep things easy. Rives CD is a step up from using Avia for example and its easy enough for Joe 6 pack to pick up, use and get decent enough results to fix a problem they may have caused before calling in the big guns.

I too am all for keeping things easy. Why complicate things when you don't have to? Unfortunately though, many folk buy the Rives Test CD 2 disc to use in conjunction with a PEQ they've just bought. If they'd just use something like ETF (or equivalent), they could sort out their frequency response much better. It really isn't difficult to setup ETF, and I for one am always more than happy to help with questions if I can. C'mon Gene; let us, you and I help all these people.

Personally when I get lazy, which is more the case than not, I use my Sencore SP295C FFT analyzer to do quick and dirty real time measurements. I suppose we could have included this in the system, but again it requires a reasonable level of technical knowledge to use this device. The end user is likely not willing to invest in this tool, let alone want to be bothered on learning it.

I'm not referring to the $75000 system here. As per the quote above, it's 'Joe 6 pack' that I'm more concerned with helping make the right decision to achieve the very best sound possible from his system without being unrealistic.

 

[gene]

5x dynaudio C1's = $12500
2 x rel stentor subs = $8000
1x arcam FMJ A32 with 7.1 module = 2500
3 x arcam p1 monoblocks = $5400
linn unidisk = $11000
Yamaha DPX-1300 projector = $12500
screen = $1000
acoustic consultant and treatment = $5000

then just hook up the unidisk to the projector and bob's your uncle!

with the $18000 left over i'd recommend a vacation to hawaii in the winter time. lovely sunsets.

Not a bad system though those Dyne's are severly dynamically limited compared to our selection and your system is for one room only whereas ours is a whole house. Not to mention you are only doing 5.1 and not taking advantage of any excellent post processing options such as PLIIx Music/Movie.

IMO 2-way bookshelf type speakers do great in nearfield environments or for music only in reasonable sized rooms, but there is no substitution for a well executed truncated line array if you want a lifelike, dynamic soundstage with limitless dynamics, especially for movies.

For 11K you could have had 3 Denon DVD-5910's (with $500 left over) which are superior in virtually every way to the 10.8 lbs Linn Universal player you selected. But cosmetically the Linn is nicer I suppose.

In the end its a balancing act between performance, aesthetics, product appeal, functionality and ease of use for the end user. We emphasized mostly performance, room aesthetics, ease of use, and functionality as we feel choosing so called "high end" brands to garner more product appeal while sacrificing performance is too great of a compromise which is what we are NOT about.

 

[LEVESQUE]

And why the Yamaha DPX-1300? A high-end system with a 720p projector? With Blu-ray and HD-DVD players just around the corner?

For around the same price of that 720p projector, why not use the Sony Ruby 1080p paired with an external scaler like the Algolith Dragonfly using the Realta HQV chip instead? That scaler will also let you process and scale all your other SD and HD sources like sat, PS3 and others for "free"...

I'm just curious.

I'm using a Ruby right now with a pre-production Blu-Ray player and the PQ is unbelievable. Why would I use a 720p projector with a 1080p player for that kind of price?

 

[westcott]

ETF provides a resolution greater than 1/10 octave. It'll also provide impulse response, low-frequency response, Full-range frequency response, low-frequency waterfall, RT-60 time, fractional octave response plots and much more besides, all within 5 seconds and the click of a mouse button.

Rives Test CD 2 provides 31 tones.

Most time windowing approaches like MLSSA, FFT, or TEF tend to make the curves smoother than they really are and make it difficult to garner good results. Their are some very expensive testing equipment that will provide 15ms time windows or longer but as Gene pointed out, not really readily available or cost effective for the average Joe.

I apologize, I should have read your suggestion a little closer.

 

[Buckle-meister]

I apologize...

You are a gentleman Sir, but really, there's no need to.

 

[Chris1971]

How I would spend $75K.

Interesting post...

I am in Australia, so forgive me if I am a little out with US$. I was thinking I would cut $75K more like...

HT. ($53,000)
Meridian G68D processor (with room correction and 3 zone) - $4500
Meridian DSP5200's (L, R & C) - $11,000
Meridian DSP3100's (Surrounds and rears) - $7,000
Meridian SW5500 Sub - $3,500

Stewart StudioTek 130 110" screen - $2,500
Sony Ruby VPL VW-100 - $7,000

Escient DVDM-552 Media Manager - $4,500
Sony DVP-CX777ES 400 disc DVD/CD changer - $1,000

AMX MVP-7500 and NI-3000 controller - $4,000
Programming of AMX - $2,000

Combination of Kimber Kable and Blue Jeans interconnects - $1,000

Setup of a half decent HT room (minimum) - $5,000

Zone 2 (Family TV area - $17,000).

Pioneer Elite 50" PureVision Plasma - $4,500
Escient MP-200 Digital Media Player - $1,000
Klipsch THX Ultra2 7.1 System - $7,000
Denon AVC-A1SR 7.1 THX Ultra2 A/V Receiver - $3,000
Nevo SL Universal Remote - $750

Combination of Kimber Kable and Blue Jeans interconnects - $750

Zone 3 (Study or Master Bedroom - $4,000).

Pioneer PDP-42A3HD High-Definition Plasma - $2,500
Escient MP-200 Digital Media Player - $1,000
Nevo SL Universal Remote - $750

Combination of Kimber Kable and Blue Jeans interconnects - $250

All prices are very realistic. I have been considering a similar set-up at home. I already have the Meridian equipment.

Cheers,

Chris
PS. If you add it up, you will find it comes to $74K. I was thinking I would put aside some money for the PS3 when it comes out and maybe a game or Blu-Ray movie to watch on the Sony Ruby. Enjoy

 

[gene]

that isn't a bad system though IMO the Meridian are no match for the RBH speakers and I would pick the Denon AVR-5805 over the Meridian gear for a variety of reasons. In addition, yout proposed system doesn't cater to a whole house solution with speakers in every room and requires more equipment to operate.