Audio options in new house (soundbar/receiver)

[dyrewolf31]

I'm pretty green on the AV stuff though in general I'm pretty technical (computers and the like). I just moved into a new house (3 years old) that is wired with a pair of in-ceiling speakers in most of the rooms (each room has a volume control in the wall). I wouldn't say I'm an Audioholic, but I would like a decent experience.

In our TV room (about 350 sq ft), I have a 2013 Samsung 51" TV. The primary decision I'm trying to make is whether to just buy a soundbar for this TV, or buy a receiver with multi-room to handle the TV room as well as the whole house surround sound (I was looking at Denon receivers in the $300-500 range). While I could use the in-ceiling pair in the TV room as the rear channels, I'd *prefer* to not have bookshelf speakers for the L/C/R as it just seems a bit clunky to me in 2016 (matter of opinion I guess).

From some searching, it doesn't seem that receivers and soundbars are going to play well together.

Any words of wisdom?

 

[lovinthehd]

Well I wouldn't call it "whole house surround sound" as those are really two separate subjects. You might have surround sound in the tv room and a few stereo pairs in zones in other rooms, though. An AVR could be one way to go but perhaps not ideal, somewhat depends on how many rooms you want to use as zones and how you want to power and control things. Way different than a soundbar on a tv in any case. Nothing wrong with well done in-walls for LCR altho a bit more permanent than appeals to me. What were you thinking of for a subwoofer if you don't want cabinet type speakers?

I think you basically have to come to a decision as to how much you want what quality of audio and how much you want to spend on it (including installing/setting it up etc).

I'm not much of a soundbar guy but that's also my impression that most won't play well with traditional components (and some home-theater-in-a-box sets are similar in that regard).

 

[KEW]

On wall speakers are not a bad option if you will use subwoofers to supplement the bass!

 

[dyrewolf31]

Hey everyone, sorry on the slow reply, lots of projects in the new house.

I've made some progress on the AV stuff, but I was hoping to get some expert feedback on my decisions:

- I bought a Denon AVR-X2300W AVR on sale (a bit higher end than I was planning, but the price was right), though I haven't hooked it up yet
- I checked out the 2 rear ceiling speakers (as well as those throughout the house) - they are all Leon AX-V6 models
- My wife is very big on seeing as little as possible, so I'm probably going to avoid visible speakers as much as possible. My thought for the LCR fronts was to get a passive soundbar (something like this https://www.amazon.com/KEF-HTF7003-Sound-Bar-Speaker/dp/B002WTAO94/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1483637785&sr=8-4&keywords=lcr+soundbar) and hook up the 3 front channels from the AVR. I would use the in-ceiling rears as channels 4 and 5. I've thought about in-wall speakers, but the wife didn't like that.
- I haven't thought about the sub much, but I will probably do something in the $100-200 range to bring the living room to 5.1
- I will use the last 2 channels of the AVR for the rest of the house. Each room is fitted with 2 of the Leon AX-V6s in ceiling, as well as a Niles volume control next to the light switches.
- I'm going to order a Niles hub (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00092LNWI/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=1NH03MYVWFGZS&coliid=IEHM1BXOHGNCW) to distribute the signal from the AVR (zone 2 channels) to each room.

Phew. So that's the plan. I'm pretty green on this stuff, so take it easy on me. I'm not going for a super high-end audiophile setup, I just want a good experience in our living room and the ability to play music anywhere in the house using the existing wiring.

Does this sound on point? Anything I should do differently?

Thanks in advance!

 

[BMXTRIX]

The use of your A/V receiver to run a bunch of speakers throughout your home is a pretty good way to hurt a receiver. They aren't designed for audio distribution.

I'm not going to get into the speaker bar debate. I'm not a fan as I think even the best ones sound horrendous compared to some decent in-wall speakers, but that's up to you and your wife.

But, you didn't say how many pairs of speakers are throughout the rest of the house. 1 or 2 pairs, then assigning zone 2 to the last two channels isn't a big deal. 3 or more speakers and I would definitely go to an external amplifier with decent power handling and reliability. There are many on eBay which cost a fraction of what they do brand new.

Run 'ZONE 2' RCA outputs from the Denon to the amplifier, then to that hub. You need to pull one of the volume controls out of the wall as well and ensure that it is an impedance matching volume control. As you have more and more pairs of speakers on the walls (ceiling), it impacts the electrical flow and can damage the amplifier. Impedance matching volume controls correct for this issue. Likewise, there are impedance matching speaker selectors like this:
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/nilesss6/niles-ss-6-6-pair-speaker-selector-fg01040/1.html?gclid=CjwKEAiA-rfDBRDeyOybg8jd2U4SJAAoE5XqQrLr7lqxGHaaDV2IFh7xqa74DFRKAXfa8IHPEtAsNxoCTKHw_wcB

Which handles up to 6 pairs of speakers and 100 watts of true amplification.

A solid amplifier, like this, offers solid stability and performance for your audio distribution:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sonance-SONAMP-SA-275-SE-2-Channel-Power-Amplifier-Amp-Box-Ears-Perfect-/162343846693?hash=item25cc728325:g:NisAAOSwEzxYYb6U

There are also multi-channel amplifiers which will do an even better job over the long term which can be had for just a couple hundred bucks with 12 channels (6 pairs of speakers) of discrete amplification.

 

[dyrewolf31]

Thank you BMXTRIX, this is really helpful. I believe there are 4 pairs of speakers in "zone 2" (though possibly 5). The speakers are all 8 ohm and 120W.

The Niles hub I had linked to has instructions in the manual about matching the impedance, though I will check out the impedance-matching devices.

Would a multi-channel amp (8 in this case) remove the need for a speaker selector/hub?

Thanks!

 

[BMXTRIX]

A multi-channel amplifier is a much better solution, but they tend to be rather large, which doesn't always work for people. In a home A/V setup with distributed audio, it's always the best solution for stability and reliability, even if it isn't the most space-saving design.

Plus, multi-channel amps often come up for not a lot of cash on eBay.

Typical design is 12-channel amplifiers, and this is nice if you have a couple less speakers because if a channel fails, for some reason, you can move it to a spare connection point. Or, you can add a couple of speakers, even if it is just part of a temporary setup.

ie: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SONANCE-SONAMP-1230-12-CHANNEL-POWER-AMPLIFIER-Great-Shape-Fully-Tested-/302185407880?hash=item465ba76588:g:YOMAAOSwImRYavO8

Keep in mind that 30 watts of power is actually quite a bit and power will be dedicated per channel, not shared among multiple speakers.

This model:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sonance-Sonamp-1250-12-Channel-Amplifier-/282314762215?hash=item41bb4567e7:g:vBYAAOSw2xRYbSYl

Is a serious beast. It weighs like 50 or more pounds, and is over half a foot tall.

Niles...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Niles-SI-1230-12-Channel-Power-Amplifier-/262786536016?hash=item3d2f4c5250:g:BscAAOSw44BYaBI8

and Speakercraft...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SpeakerCraft-12-Channel-Amplifier-/142235465944?hash=item211de4f8d8:g:PXYAAOSwa~BYbrrb

Have similar offerings.

I personally do use 8-channel amplifiers from Rotel in my setup. The RMB-1048 which is out of production, and can be difficult to find.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rotel-RMB-1048-Amplifier-8-Channel-Power-Amplifier-/262784065858?hash=item3d2f26a142:g:H7QAAOSwZVlXnSu9
Note: The one above is listed as not working, and isn't as inexpensive as the other models I linked.