Audio Critic's Ten Biggest Lies

S

Steve1000

Audioholic
I searched on "audioholics" at a subjectivist web site I used to frequent before I discovered this place, and one of the hits uncovered this article:

http://www.theaudiocritic.com/downloads/article_1.pdf

Of course at the subjectivist site a link to the article resulted in 7 pages of drivel and a locked thread.

Just wondering what you guys think.

Placed in the Steam Vent so you can take the kid gloves off!!!
 
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jaxvon

jaxvon

Audioholic Ninja
I've seen this one a few times, and it's spot on. It basically sums up what AH preaches.
 
S

Steve1000

Audioholic
Okay, just to get the ball rolling, the ten biggest lies were:

1. The Cable Lie

2. The Vacuum-Tube Lie

3. The Antidigital Lie

4. The Listening-Test Lie

5. The Feedback Lie

6. The Burn-In Lie

7. The Biwiring Lie

8. The Power Conditioner Lie

9. The CD Treatment Lie

10. The Golden Ear Lie

Did they overstate their case anywhere? :)
 
S

Steve1000

Audioholic
I agree, I love the article, but it'd be nice to see if there is any valid rebuttal. :cool:

jaxvon said:
I've seen this one a few times, and it's spot on.
 
jaxvon

jaxvon

Audioholic Ninja
The only thing I think is wrong is the "Power Conditioner Lie". I've heard power conditioners make a very audible improvement in the sound. Now this isn't something like "smoother highs, chocolately mids" but rather took noise out of the speaker line. A simple A/B test with the system plugged into the conditioner and straight into the wall yielded very different results. Without the conditioner in place, there was a very audible white noise and hum coming through the speakers. With it in, there was nearly silence.

I think that any system should be on a quality power conditioner. These will not only keep noise out, but add another line of protection from line surges.
 
corysmith01

corysmith01

Senior Audioholic
I was about to post this as another "snake oil?" question, but this thread seems very fitting. I came across this:

http://www.bedini.com/clarifier.htm

I saw that some guy on audiogon had it, so I wanted to see what the hell it was. Also, on the site, they have a review of someone who's used it:

http://www.bedini.com/review.htm

Is this for real? Is the guy who reviewed it for real? I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but it seems pretty outlandish to me. I mean, aren't CD's just binary code? By this theory, couldn't you similarly come up with a product the could clean your entire computer and make it "work better" with "improved performance" by cleaning its 1's and 0's?

So, what's the verdict? Snake oil or not?
 
S

Steve1000

Audioholic
Total snake-oil, IMHO. That would be The Audio Critic's biggest lie number 9, the CD treatment lie. You provided the reasons yourself. There's really not anything more to it. :)

corysmith01 said:
I was about to post this as another "snake oil?" question, but this thread seems very fitting. I came across this:

http://www.bedini.com/clarifier.htm

I saw that some guy on audiogon had it, so I wanted to see what the hell it was. Also, on the site, they have a review of someone who's used it:

http://www.bedini.com/review.htm

Is this for real? Is the guy who reviewed it for real? I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but it seems pretty outlandish to me. I mean, aren't CD's just binary code? By this theory, couldn't you similarly come up with a product the could clean your entire computer and make it "work better" with "improved performance" by cleaning its 1's and 0's?

So, what's the verdict? Snake oil or not?
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Steve1000 said:
I searched on "audioholics" at a subjectivist web site I used to frequent before I discovered this place, and one of the hits uncovered this article:

http://www.theaudiocritic.com/downloads/article_1.pdf

Of course at the subjectivist site a link to the article resulted in 7 pages of drivel and a locked thread.

Just wondering what you guys think.

Placed in the Steam Vent so you can take the kid gloves off!!!

Yes, we have seen this before, but you cannot tease us like this.
You have to reveal that 'other' web site :D We have no secrets and won't reveal it to anyone else :p
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
jaxvon said:
The only thing I think is wrong is the "Power Conditioner Lie". I've heard power conditioners make a very audible improvement in the sound. Now this isn't something like "smoother highs, chocolately mids" but rather took noise out of the speaker line. A simple A/B test with the system plugged into the conditioner and straight into the wall yielded very different results. Without the conditioner in place, there was a very audible white noise and hum coming through the speakers. With it in, there was nearly silence.

I think that any system should be on a quality power conditioner. These will not only keep noise out, but add another line of protection from line surges.

There must have been a grounding issue :D Or, a faulty filtering in the main component?
 
S

Steve1000

Audioholic
Could it have had to do with the quality of design of the amplifier? I've had amplifiers that ran clean (no hum or noise) and others that didn't (ground hum and hiss) out of a particular electric socket. As you say, the difference was immediately and obviously audible to anyone. I've always taken the noisy amps back and bought something that worked better right out of the socket, even if the noisy amps worked fine at other places in the house. The Audio Critic article itself alludes to a well-made amp not needing a line conditioner. I'm far from competent on matters of electric circuits and design, but that's the sum and substance of my experience and understanding of the matter. :)

jaxvon said:
The only thing I think is wrong is the "Power Conditioner Lie". I've heard power conditioners make a very audible improvement in the sound. Now this isn't something like "smoother highs, chocolately mids" but rather took noise out of the speaker line. A simple A/B test with the system plugged into the conditioner and straight into the wall yielded very different results. Without the conditioner in place, there was a very audible white noise and hum coming through the speakers. With it in, there was nearly silence.

I think that any system should be on a quality power conditioner. These will not only keep noise out, but add another line of protection from line surges.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
corysmith01 said:
So, what's the verdict? Snake oil or not?
As bogus as it gets. Voodoo, junk. So is the one from Germany for about $600 that curs the edge at some angle and applies black.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
I would definitely argue the power conditioner point. Not that a good receiver won't do a great job, but with lots of electronics on potentially different grounds can introduce noise into a system relatively easily. The noise becomes part of the audio path and the receiver doesn't add it, the ground loop does.

This is why some amplifiers offer the ability to lift ground, and why a good power conditioner will take all inputs and put them to common ground, including cable signals that produce all those nasty lines on your video display.

I'm not saying that they may not be a bit much, but in a nice system, I think they are a fairly cheap accessory that definitely helps to protect and clean the entire system up. In large installs I know for sure that while heat is the number one killer of A/V gear, electrical storms are the number two killer and often take out a lot of equipment in one home. Protecting all equipment and all incoming power AND cable/ant/sat lines is not just good, I consider it basic smarts in any system setup.

A big help with the quality? Nah... But, the protection it adds sure is a bit of peace of mind.
 
Rip Van Woofer

Rip Van Woofer

Audioholic General
...but the point about it being "the power conditioner lie" isn't that the conditioners are being touted by the high-endniks for their intended and perfectly valid uses of removing noise due to poor mains supplies or RF interference, but for the alleged ability to deliver audible improvements in things like soundstaging and bass and "air" and the rest. All rubbish, and nearly as absurd as the claims for exotic power cords.

Oh, and of course they're not just touting reasonably priced and solidly engineered gear from established companies, but kilobuck fantasy objects from "boutique" audiophile outfits with doubtful engineering at crazy prices.

Bottom line: Unless you have noisy/unreliable power or otherwise intractable ground loop or interference problems (evidenced by obvious hum, buzz, or Morse code from the ham radio guy a few doors down), well-designed audio equipment simply doesn't need power conditioning.

But what about surge and lightning protection? Another thing entirely, and certainly prudent. And shouldn't cost an arm and a leg.

Now, as to whether there is generally room for improvement in the grounding of most consumer audio...that's a whole 'nother discussion, and a valid one. Dan Banquer has addressed that here and on other forums.

FWIW, my DIY amps will include a simple ground loop breaker circuit, and (thanks to Dan Banquer again) a common mode filter at the AC in from a mainstream vendor. That and keeping the internal wiring neat and well separated should do the trick as my AC seems clean.

(Dan, I'm trying a less expensive Corcom than the one you suggested, a bargain -- I hope -- from AllElectronics. Hey, if it doesn't work I can replace it.)
 
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Spiffyfast

Spiffyfast

Audioholic General
good article, really hits on some great points
 
M

miklorsmith

Full Audioholic
Exception

There are a few of these items I could take exception to, but won't.

The black-and-white view of things reeks of self-important bigotry. Oversimplification sure makes a point clear though, doesn't it? Sounds like the author wasn't really listening when somebody tried to explain complex ideas to him. Have you ever read a review where the reviewer said "I can hear better than you"? How about "Digital sound, even in the best cases, is hard and edgy"? Or "vacuum tubes are inherently superior to transistors in audio applications"?

Me either, and I've read Tons of reviews.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
Rip Van Woofer said:
...but the point about it being "the power conditioner lie" isn't that the conditioners are being touted by the high-endniks for their intended and perfectly valid uses of removing noise due to poor mains supplies or RF interference, but for the alleged ability to deliver audible improvements in things like soundstaging and bass and "air" and the rest. All rubbish, and nearly as absurd as the claims for exotic power cords.

Oh, and of course they're not just touting reasonably priced and solidly engineered gear from established companies, but kilobuck fantasy objects from "boutique" audiophile outfits with doubtful engineering at crazy prices.

Bottom line: Unless you have noisy/unreliable power or otherwise intractable ground loop or interference problems (evidenced by obvious hum, buzz, or Morse code from the ham radio guy a few doors down), well-designed audio equipment simply doesn't need power conditioning.
Yes, I just think it ends up throwing out the entire power conditioner altogether instead of one selling point. Many people don't have well designed equipment, or proper grounding and electrical systems. Most of all, they have horrible electrical stability issues. So, to throw the conditioner out that has top notch surge supression is not something I would do. Does it magically make the audio better? Of course not. But, the level of protection is does provide is worth a couple hundred dollars for a decent surge protector and power conditioner. Not for audio benefits, but for pure peace of mind.

They go together, and one is not necessarily separate from the other and the price paid for some products, as with ANY products can be to much. So, finding a good deal or price or product is up to the consumer to do. But, throwing out all (for example) Monster surge supressors because they mention that they do some power conditioning is also a very poor decision.

Almost as bad as paying full retail for Monster stuff. ;)
 
H

hopjohn

Full Audioholic
miklorsmith said:
The black-and-white view of things reeks of self-important bigotry. Oversimplification sure makes a point clear though, doesn't it?
Totally agree. This is the reason the article loses credibility with me. Yes, obviously he is trying to get across his points, and fundamentally I agree with them. Though, his failing is that he bases his commentary on extreme, short sighted, conflicting arguments that are more likely to be heard coming from a salesmen than the fellow reviewers he attacks.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
miklorsmith said:
There are a few of these items I could take exception to, but won't.
miklorsmith said:
Good idea. I think you would loose badly with him :D

The black-and-white view of things reeks of self-important bigotry.

Just the facts. Hard to take at times though.

Oversimplification sure makes a point clear though, doesn't it?


You need to follow his career over the past 30 years to get the full story. Hard to do that in a few pages.


Sounds like the author wasn't really listening when somebody tried to explain complex ideas to him.

Ah, your speculation? You have no idea about the author, his listening protocols, his experience or the technical support that he has had in hand during his long career in audio, right? Be careful of what you nothing about ;)
 

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