Atmos Speaker Tilting

[cae780]

Hey Everyone,

Just had a quick question- I have down-firing, in ceiling speakers installed in a drop ceiling tile. I see a lot of folks use speakers angled at the main listening position, and am curious to try this approach. Obviously I'd prefer not to buy whole new speakers- has anyone heard of some type of angled insert that will allow a downfiring speaker to sit at an angle? In my mind I'm picturing an angled plastic "washer", that would sit between the speaker lip and the tile

I'm considering making something myself, but off the shelf would be awesome

 

[TLS Guy]

Hey Everyone,

Just had a quick question- I have down-firing, in ceiling speakers installed in a drop ceiling tile. I see a lot of folks use speakers angled at the main listening position, and am curious to try this approach. Obviously I'd prefer not to buy whole new speakers- has anyone heard of some type of angled insert that will allow a downfiring speaker to sit at an angle? In my mind I'm picturing an angled plastic "washer", that would sit between the speaker lip and the tile

I'm considering making something myself, but off the shelf would be awesome

I personally do not do that. I am opposed to angling them. You really want even dispersion.

 

[j_garcia]

Atmos wouldn't have the same needs as mains. Mains want a specific setup to achieve proper imaging. Height speakers are not intended to be immediately identifiable and should be diffuse as TLS mentions. The recording/decoding handles the placement of the sound.

 

[cae780]

Thanks for the replies, mostly just curious if this is an item available anywhere rather than a discussion on whether or not it's advisable.

Put it this way- based on Dolby's recommendations, I'm borderline on whether or not I should be aiming the speakers slightly towards the main listening position. I'm hoping there's a simple solution out there that will allow me to experiment and see for myself the difference, and what my ears prefer. I've checked, but may just not be searching with the right terms

 

[Danzilla31]

Thanks for the replies, mostly just curious if this is an item available anywhere rather than a discussion on whether or not it's advisable.

Put it this way- based on Dolby's recommendations, I'm borderline on whether or not I should be aiming the speakers slightly towards the main listening position. I'm hoping there's a simple solution out there that will allow me to experiment and see for myself the difference, and what my ears prefer. I've checked, but may just not be searching with the right terms

You absolutely should think about angling them. Atmos is more about angles then many starting out realize. Here is a link to Home Theater Gurus on how to setup and avoid mistakes with your overhead speakers. It's episode 48. I highly recommend you check out his channel and check out ALL 48 episodes. He gives the best breakdowns on theater design including how to set up a good Dolby atmos theater I've ever seen

The problem with speakers firing straight down only is that you lose a lot of energy and content listening to them that far off axis. Speakers were never made to be listened to that way. No matter how well or wide they disperse sound if your way off axis it's going to affect what you can hear greatly.

Buying the atmos ceiling speakers I have now that already have the built in angles and ability to move the midrange and tweeter drivers at the desired angles to my listening area based on the info on his channel was ome of the best improvements I have had for my overall atmos experience .

 

[Danzilla31]

Hey Everyone,

Just had a quick question- I have down-firing, in ceiling speakers installed in a drop ceiling tile. I see a lot of folks use speakers angled at the main listening position, and am curious to try this approach. Obviously I'd prefer not to buy whole new speakers- has anyone heard of some type of angled insert that will allow a downfiring speaker to sit at an angle? In my mind I'm picturing an angled plastic "washer", that would sit between the speaker lip and the tile

I'm considering making something myself, but off the shelf would be awesome

To answer the part of your question about a pre-made angled insert I'm not aware of any wish I could help you there perhaps someone else might know

 

[gene]

You absolutely should think about angling them. Atmos is more about angles then many starting out realize. Here is a link to Home Theater Gurus on how to setup and avoid mistakes with your overhead speakers. It's episode 48. I highly recommend you check out his channel and check out ALL 48 episodes. He gives the best breakdowns on theater design including how to set up a good Dolby atmos theater I've ever seen

The problem with speakers firing straight down only is that you lose a lot of energy and content listening to them that far off axis. Speakers were never made to be listened to that way. No matter how well or wide they disperse sound if your way off axis it's going to affect what you can hear greatly.

Buying the atmos ceiling speakers I have now that already have the built in angles and ability to move the midrange and tweeter drivers at the desired angles to my listening area based on the info on his channel was ome of the best improvements I have had for my overall atmos experience .

If you properly place your height speakers and choose wide dispersion speakers, you shouldn't need to aim them. I typically install my top fronts + 20deg from MLP and my Top rears -20deg from MLP and I have flat and even dispersion across all my seats out to 20kHz. My back row suffers a bit but it would be worse IF I aimed my height speakers at the front row.

 

[Danzilla31]

If you properly place your height speakers and choose wide dispersion speakers, you shouldn't need to aim them. I typically install my top fronts + 20deg from MLP and my Top rears -20deg from MLP and I have flat and even dispersion across all my seats out to 20kHz. My back row suffers a bit but it would be worse IF I aimed my height speakers at the front row.

Yeah that works if you have a situation like yours where they are pretty close to overhead. I had a good talk with Shane at RBH about this I wanted to use some of his bigger downfiring in walls to fix my previous screw up but mine are to far off axis to get away with this. Downfiring even with good dispersion just wouldn't work

In a situation like mine the info home theater Gurus put out really helped. Luckily I had measured my overheads correctly I just for me had the wrong type of speakers put in those places. I bought the Focal ICLR5's after I saw your review of that line on YouTube and they work perfect for my situation I couldn't be happier I get great response at my MLP but also across all the seats now.

 

[Danzilla31]

If you properly place your height speakers and choose wide dispersion speakers, you shouldn't need to aim them. I typically install my top fronts + 20deg from MLP and my Top rears -20deg from MLP and I have flat and even dispersion across all my seats out to 20kHz. My back row suffers a bit but it would be worse IF I aimed my height speakers at the front row.

I think it's also important to note that the OP should consider it it doesn't mean it's abdolutely necessary.

But the info Home Theater Gurus puts out is good and he mentions in this link you can't always pull this of to perfection. A lot of us have to compromise but if you can do it 100% the way Dolby tells you to he does a good job showing you how to do it.

It's a pretty cool site I like it he covers so many good topics on home theaters. Have you ever checked out his site before? I'd be interested to hear your take on it.

 

[BMXTRIX]

If dealing with more than one row of seating and speaker positioning over several rows, I might not angle speakers over a back row, but might angle speakers that are in front of the front row. This way the front row and rear row benefits more from the in-ceiling speakers. The back row and front row would also get the rear speakers a bit better.

As to if they make after-market angled enclosures, this is not something I have seen personally. Not sure if anyone else has either based upon the responses so far.
Considering the price of a pair of decent in-ceiling angled speakers is under $100, I might go that route if the speakers I had weren't uber expensive. Most in-ceiling speakers are pretty similar, even if someone pays a lot for them.

 

[cae780]

Danzilla, that video is actually what got me looking into this in the first place. Prior to that, I'd asked a Klipsch phone line what they figured and they said downfiring was preferable as it's more for atmosphere, and I'm only about 40 degrees off-axis. But I figure it'd be interesting to see if there's any difference to me, if aiming at the mlp would be preferable. It's just me, so I can kinda do whatever I want without having to worry about other seats

 

[Danzilla31]

Danzilla, that video is actually what got me looking into this in the first place. Prior to that, I'd asked a Klipsch phone line what they figured and they said downfiring was preferable as it's more for atmosphere, and I'm only about 40 degrees off-axis. But I figure it'd be interesting to see if there's any difference to me, if aiming at the mlp would be preferable. It's just me, so I can kinda do whatever I want without having to worry about other seats

40 degrees of axis is kindoff stretching like in Gene's situation 20 degrees off axis you can get away with downfiring no problem with great wide dispersion speakers

That video is also showing the absolute no compromise way to do it best like Dolby atmos specifies. It's important to note that not all of us can do that

Also the point Gene is making which I should have said more myself is you don't have to be perfectly spot on those angles there are tolerances allowed. That guy likes a 35 degree angle but the chart says 35 to 60 degree so there is room to be flexible based on the type of speaker you use

I think at 40 degrees out the RSL C34EMKII would be a great angled speaker for your room and there extremely reasonably priced.

I'm using these

The Focal 300 ICLR5'S they have the angle built in already and a aimable midrange and tweeter and come with a built in back box

BUT they are pricey and a no holds barred approach no compromise speaker which is justified in my theater room especially since I had to put them in a specific spot to fix my screwup on my first install. I needed really good really specific speakers to pull this off as I said to fix my screw up.

but for most users in most rooms starting out when you have flexibility to place the speakers you won't need something like this plus they are BIG and you need room up there to make sure they can be installed.

Something like the RSL if your 40 degrees off axis is a great choice.

And like the guy in the video said you'll still get the effect if you stay with downfiring you just won't get as good of an effect as angling but is it worth it to go through all that hassle if your not trying to chase perfect. That's the important question I think

 

[cae780]

Thanks Dan. Not looking to buy new speakers, just wanted to experiment. And for sure there's tolerances- like I mentioned, I'm within dolby's recommendations for a downfiring, wide dispersion speaker vs angling one. Just wanted to tinker and try things out.

I do have the ability to move my speakers though (I put them in the corner of the tiles, so I can "fine adjust" the positioning), so maybe I'll try tightening up their position to see if that changed anything as well. With 8' ceilings, it wouldn't take much to go from my ~40 degrees to ~20-30 degrees.

I guess if nothings off the shelf, I'll make some angled spacers to try tilting them ~10 degrees, and play around with bringing them closer to me! (or at least, before moving them I'll just measure at which angle they start to measure pretty flat- directly under them vs MLP was definitely a noticable measurement difference on REW)

 

[Danzilla31]

Thanks Dan. Not looking to buy new speakers, just wanted to experiment. And for sure there's tolerances- like I mentioned, I'm within dolby's recommendations for a downfiring, wide dispersion speaker vs angling one. Just wanted to tinker and try things out.

I do have the ability to move my speakers though (I put them in the corner of the tiles, so I can "fine adjust" the positioning), so maybe I'll try tightening up their position to see if that changed anything as well. With 8' ceilings, it wouldn't take much to go from my ~40 degrees to ~20-30 degrees.

I guess if nothings off the shelf, I'll make some angled spacers to try tilting them ~10 degrees, and play around with bringing them closer to me! (or at least, before moving them I'll just measure at which angle they start to measure pretty flat- directly under them vs MLP was definitely a noticable measurement difference on REW)

That will be awesome to see your measurements and results and also if they do measure flat your subjective experience! Looking forward to it!