Atmos Ceiling Speakers

[Conor Knoxx]

For all the mountain of reviews and information there is out there on "speakers" - and everyone says for a great home theater experience, you need 4 Atmos speakers... the only ones anyone seems to talk about are the upwards facing ones, that go on top of your fronts.
I'm planning on putting them in my ceiling though. So, like anyone, I don't want to spend more than I have to! My current first choice for the 3 fronts are Paradigm Premier 800F and 600C. It looks the "matching" ones to build in, are the CI-PRO-65R (and that's just my best-guess really...)
But I wonder if this more than I need for just Atmos speakers? Could I get by with some much lower end without sacrificing sound quality (much)?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

You can definitely “get by” but to me a system should be looked as a whole. That doesn’t mean you need towers on the ceiling, but better speakers are better speakers. Even for surrounds, you can use some little tiny cubes. But the experience will definitely be lessened. Some will say, meh surrounds don’t get much use but even if that WAS true, it’s not about how much ONE speaker contributes, it’s how much the group of speakers conveys the whole soundtrack.
Just like the front speakers, the side and rear are responsible for soundstage and imaging, just in a different way. BTW, nice job on NOT following any thoughts of AE speakers. I believe you’d be underwhelmed.
So, what exactly is your budget?

 

[Kleinst]

I agree that matching might be best so if you can swing that then great.

I didn’t match myself (jbl 590s, 530s). I got the following Canton ceilings and I’ve been pleased. Pretty immersive environment.

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[William Lemmerhirt]

I agree that matching might be best so if you can swing that then great.

I didn’t match myself (jbl 590s, 530s). I got the following Canton ceilings and I’ve been pleased. Pretty immersive environment.

Accessories4less: High End Audio at Low End Prices!

www.accessories4less.com

Agreed. I have the grandfather to your 590’s lol, and I used RSL c34e’s in my ceiling. I also had other considerations, but my main goals were wide dispersion, and good imaging. They do both very well. The tweeters are more laid back than my others but I’ve found a very immersive system.
For the OP, if he has the means, and is willing I don’t see why not. Again, it’s not necessary, but looking back on all of my systems I feel like just doing it the first time eliminates buyers remorse(yuk) and upgraditis. Lol

 

[Kleinst]

I agree with you. I certainly wouldn’t buy dirt cheap ceilings. I looked at those RSLs and those might have been great choices too. I was impatient and just ordered the Cantons but I don’t regret them. They are good.

But sure if there were reasonable JBLs with compression drivers to match my set, I’d have looked into them. I think there is a upscale series actually but more than I wanted to spend.

But I give the ceiling speaker a thumbs up and definitely recommend 4 channels vs 2 if you can swing it

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I agree with you. I certainly wouldn’t buy dirt cheap ceilings. I looked at those RSLs and those might have been great choices too. I was impatient and just ordered the Cantons but I don’t regret them. They are good.

But sure if there were reasonable JBLs with compression drivers to match my set, I’d have looked into them. I think there is a upscale series actually but more than I wanted to spend.

But I give the ceiling speaker a thumbs up and definitely recommend 4 channels vs 2 if you can swing it

I wouldn’t regret the cantons either. They make very fine speakers. And definitely .4 vs .2

 

[Conor Knoxx]

So, what exactly is your budget?

a fair question... I'm starting from scratch on this.. and since this is the "Audioholics" forum, I'll leave the projector out of the mix
I'm in the planning stages, but looking at 5.1.4 setup - its actually a pretty small room - approx 12 x 13 x 8ft - Also need a comparable AVR receiver. Since currency exchange rates are a pain... I'll just quote Canadian dollar amounts - I came into this thinking I could get a "nice" setup for about $6k. The more I read / research, this number keeps going up! Now I'm squeezing for about $10k (so about $7,500 USD? ) a Denon X4700 (though I'm kinda waiting to see what Yamaha comes out with soon..) and Paradigm Premier speakers (800F front / 600C center /200B surrounds / 4x Pro P65-R Atmos.
I have almost no experience with this kind of equipment, can't really go listen to them anywhere (between Covid and no large retailers nearby) and I REALLY want to get it right the first time! So I'd rather err to a little more than I need (a little extra cost) than have regrets after the fact...
Which is why I'm here!
(edit) and I almost forgot! - the Paradigm Defiance X10 Sub.

 

[mazersteven]

For all the mountain of reviews and information there is out there on "speakers" - and everyone says for a great home theater experience, you need 4 Atmos speakers... the only ones anyone seems to talk about are the upwards facing ones, that go on top of your fronts.
I'm planning on putting them in my ceiling though. So, like anyone, I don't want to spend more than I have to! My current first choice for the 3 fronts are Paradigm Premier 800F and 600C. It looks the "matching" ones to build in, are the CI-PRO-65R (and that's just my best-guess really...)
But I wonder if this more than I need for just Atmos speakers? Could I get by with some much lower end without sacrificing sound quality (much)?

You want a Surround Sound Experience but don't want Quality Speakers and don't want to "Sacrific Sound Quality" Hmmmmmmm

 

[mazersteven]

its actually a pretty small room - approx 12 x 13 x 8ft - (so about $7,500 USD? )

Wow that's alot of wood for a small room.

 

[Conor Knoxx]

I guess I kinda knew what the responses would be... I just needed to hear it. Saving a little money on something that's not going to make much difference is always nice.
Mazer's "Wow that's alot of wood for a small room." - also addresses one of my other concerns, that this is over-kill for a room this size? Because I really don't know. I'm not looking for crush-my-eardrums loud, lol - just a decent volume with crisp, clear, quality sound.
Priority of use: 1) Video/Movies / 2) Music (think classic rock here..) / 3) gaming (computer and PS5)

But perhaps even the step down products in this same speaker series would be plenty? eg: Paradigm Premier 700F/100B/500C ? which I believe are all 5.5 inch drivers, instead of 6.5 inch..

 

[mazersteven]

Mazer's "Wow that's alot of wood for a small room." - also addresses one of my other concerns, that this is over-kill for a room this size? Because I really don't know. I'm not looking for crush-my-eardrums loud, lol - just a decent volume with crisp, clear, quality sound.
Priority of use: 1) Video/Movies / 2) Music (think classic rock here..) / 3) gaming (computer and PS5)

But perhaps even the step down products in this same speaker series would be plenty? eg: Paradigm Premier 700F/100B/500C ? which I believe are all 5.5 inch drivers, instead of 6.5 inch..

Hey don't let me stop you. That would be an outstanding system. Overkill? Yes and No.

Crushing Eardrum Loud can be created by either set of speakers. (You control the volume knob, not the speakers)

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Room size is a good point. Usually I’d catch that. That’s a very small room IMO, and in order to get top rears where they should be, you’d need to be off the back wall a bit. This would better meet the ideal, but you could still do it. Ime if the top rears are right above you, they can make it hard to know that top fronts are in use. Normally I’d recommend 5.1.2 I’d you are stuck to the back wall with the couch.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Also, the step down line can be a good way to save money. In a smaller room it’s easier to get more dynamic range from your speakers. So as long as they’re the same from a qualitative point, you’d be fine. Then you can use the extra money for a matching sub. Two IS better than one. So long as they’re good in the first place.

 

[Conor Knoxx]

Yes, the seating definitely has to be against the wall - my viewing line already has to be across the narrower distance (12ft). But I thought the ideal position for 4 Atmos were all forward of the seating anyway? Also that the 4 Atmos were each on their own channel, so would be adjusted individually for balance? But hey, if I'm not going to be able to tell 2 from 4 Atmos speakers in that room (at least not noticeably ) I'm all good with that!
And once again, I'm not going to be able to listen to different setups in advance, so I'll just take (what seems like) the most logical / sound advice I can find, and run with it

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Yes, the seating definitely has to be against the wall - my viewing line already has to be across the narrower distance (12ft). But I thought the ideal position for 4 Atmos were all forward of the seating anyway? Also that the 4 Atmos were each on their own channel, so would be adjusted individually for balance? But hey, if I'm not going to be able to tell 2 from 4 Atmos speakers in that room (at least not noticeably ) I'm all good with that!
And once again, I'm not going to be able to listen to different setups in advance, so I'll just take (what seems like) the most logical / sound advice I can find, and run with it

Actually no, in a .4 the tops should be at 45° fore and aft of the LP. So if the distance from ear to ceiling is 5’, then measure straight up and the fronts should be 5’ in front, and 5’ to the rear. Obviously that’s an ideal situation, but it is the spec so... I would look at a really good .2 in your case.

(Disregard d the doodle lol)

https://www.dolby.com/siteassets/technologies/dolby-atmos/atmos-installation-guidelines-121318_r3.1.pdf

Here’s some reading. I’ve had a hard time finding the original docs, but here’s one. Good reading.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Also got a notification that @mazersteven quoted me. Cans find it. Thought the forum went cooky. Or mazer did.

 

[mazersteven]

Thought the forum went cooky. Or mazer did.

No I deleted the post.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

No I deleted the post.

That was my next guess...

 

[mazersteven]

You see I'm confused I've never had Atmos so I can't speak from experience but I do know that they recommend that the ceiling height be a minimum of 7 1/2' but preferred to be something like 11 or 12 ft so I don't know how to advise the OP whether it's a good idea to have Atmos in a small room with only 8 foot ceilings.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

You see I'm confused I've never had Atmos so I can't speak from experience but I do know that they recommend that the ceiling height be a minimum of 7 1/2' but preferred to be something like 11 or 12 ft so I don't know how to advise the OP whether it's a good idea to have Atmos in a small room with only 8 foot ceilings.

Roger that. The thing I’ve found is it’s pretty forgiving. The specs are easy to get stuck on, but as long as you can get close, it still works very well. 8’ is definitely low, and you can’t fight physics. On the other hand a high ceiling, say 14 or 15’ can be dealt with by more capable speakers etc.
for OP, the low ceiling and the fact he’s on the back wall, to me means 5.1.2 and make sure the .2 are placed where they’ll work best.