Ascends 340SE impressions

ahblaza

ahblaza

Audioholic Field Marshall
I haven't heard them, but if and when you get them, please experiment thoroughly with placement. If I had to guess on a particular concept, it would be that many do not experiment enough with placement from front wall. Sometimes that extra foot makes it sound like a completely different speaker.

My personal preference is wider spread, with greater toe in. You can find a compromise by playing with both mch and stereo (if you listen to much stereo). Greater spread for a more massive/wider soundstage, but not too wide where you created a "hole" in the middle with stereo. However, since Ascends are supposed to have good offaxis response, I bet you can go wide indeed.

Where exactly do you intend to put the center, below or above display? Angled at all if the display is centered at eye level?


Grant, could you explain a wider spread(center of L speaker to center of R speaker), I would definetely like to go wide, my room is 13 feet wide and have no problem of keeping the mains off the front wall by at least three feet, as my room is quite long (26 feet). I would definetely play around with placement as I believe this is critical, what would you suggest as a starting point for separation of the mains and toe in angle? Thanks my friend.
Jeff
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
We each have our own way. To me the ideal is the equilateral triangle Grant suggested. The speakers the same distance apart as you are from the speakers. For toe-in I start with (as a single guy) aiming the right speaker oover my right shoulder and the left over my left shoulder. That's just a starting point and I play with everything from over the shoulder to straight out. On the other hand when I have a girl friend over I aim one just over my shoulder and the other just over hers.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Jost, could you please explain what you mean by wider spread with greater toe in, how far apart from tweeter to tweeter would you recommend me placing the speakers, you say this will create a massive sound stage. Please help.
Jeff
Well, I'm not promising anything, ok? Try to form an equilateral triangle between your two speakers and your head. Then toe in so that the tweeters are firing at your head; someone who I greatly respect would say have them toed-in to the point where the axes would cross just in front of your face.

This is not the final position though, it is the starting point. You start tweaking to personal preference. If you think one spot is really good, but want to keep experimenting, just put a piece of tape on the floor to mark that spot so you can easily go back to it. When I move my speakers around for whatever reason, I usually use tape.

However, room interaction with the speakers doesn't always mean that the above will sound best. If for instance to form something close to an equilateral triangle means that the speakers are right up against the sidewalls, well, no that's not ideal at all. Ideally, you'd have significant space from all boundaries to speakers.

In a nutshell, like I said earlier, experiment. If the equilateral triangle for some reason seems to sound like it has a hole in the middle with stereo, obviously I don't think you will like it. There is no magic dimension/angle, because some speakers act so differently, as do rooms.
Grant, could you explain a wider spread(center of L speaker to center of R speaker), I would definetely like to go wide, my room is 13 feet wide and have no problem of keeping the mains off the front wall by at least three feet, as my room is quite long (26 feet). I would definetely play around with placement as I believe this is critical, what would you suggest as a starting point for separation of the mains and toe in angle? Thanks my friend.
Jeff
Jeff 'n Sholling, my name is not Grant. Jeff, maybe you wanted GranteedEV to expound on what I offered already??

I thought I already explained "wider spread"?

As for 13x26, well, it's too bad that the 13 is exactly half of 26. Anyways . . .

Lengthwise is best, and so it's good you have it that way. From there, the starting* point for listener distance to either front or back wall in a rectangular room is 38%.

Therefore, if your ears are 9.88 ft from the front wall, AND you wanted at least 3' off the front wall (and then add the depth of the speaker, let's see what is the 340, alright 10.5" depth) . . . you would be just about exactly on the dot 6' from each speaker, with 6' of space between the centers of the two speakers. But see, that could* look pretty funny (not that it wouldn't sound fantastic though).

Basically, there is no way you're going to get it all to work out perfectly, in terms of equilateral triangle, 3' from any given boundaries, with ideal listener position, with any semblance of using the room well in the aesthetic and practical senses.

If there was one of those things that mattered the most, I have read on more than one occasion that it is the position of the listener. I am sure it's still a generalization, as we could get carried away . . .

If say we went with 38% from the back* wall, you are then 16.12' from the front wall. Then you would be 12.245' from the fronts of the speakers (if they have 3' from front wall). Well now . . . if the space between the speakers was the same at 12.2' . . . well it's basically not even possible anymore, and definitely not desired, since the width of the room is 13'.

There is no silver bullet here, if you catch my drift. The drift I wanted you to catch was simply this: Keep a very open mind about experimentation of the placements of both speakers and yourself. Whew.
 
ahblaza

ahblaza

Audioholic Field Marshall
Well, I'm not promising anything, ok? Try to form an equilateral triangle between your two speakers and your head. Then toe in so that the tweeters are firing at your head; someone who I greatly respect would say have them toed-in to the point where the axes would cross just in front of your face.

This is not the final position though, it is the starting point. You start tweaking to personal preference. If you think one spot is really good, but want to keep experimenting, just put a piece of tape on the floor to mark that spot so you can easily go back to it. When I move my speakers around for whatever reason, I usually use tape.

However, room interaction with the speakers doesn't always mean that the above will sound best. If for instance to form something close to an equilateral triangle means that the speakers are right up against the sidewalls, well, no that's not ideal at all. Ideally, you'd have significant space from all boundaries to speakers.

In a nutshell, like I said earlier, experiment. If the equilateral triangle for some reason seems to sound like it has a hole in the middle with stereo, obviously I don't think you will like it. There is no magic dimension/angle, because some speakers act so differently, as do rooms.
Thanks Jost, what you are suggesting is the way I have my mains setup now, also from someone whom I have respect for. I've used the WASP setup, maybe your are familiar with this from TNT-audio, I have achieved great results with this configuration considering my big boxy speakers. I have also used tape to mark each increment of the final setup, this makes it easy to go back to the original placement and tweak from there. I have very good results from what you suggested from relatively OK mains, my Epik sub really makes the mains sound good. I realy want the 340's as front stage, I'm looking for a wide accurate mid range clarity which my current setup does not provide, I believe the Ascends could do this, and the price is right. I have never owned monitor speakers, sorry I did with Snell monitors, but that was 25 years ago. I will talk to Dave today, my only concern is a horizontal center MTM configuration. Thanks Jost for your time and input.
Jeff
 
ahblaza

ahblaza

Audioholic Field Marshall
We each have our own way. To me the ideal is the equilateral triangle Grant suggested. The speakers the same distance apart as you are from the speakers. For toe-in I start with (as a single guy) aiming the right speaker oover my right shoulder and the left over my left shoulder. That's just a starting point and I play with everything from over the shoulder to straight out. On the other hand when I have a girl friend over I aim one just over my shoulder and the other just over hers.

sholling, that is what I'm trying to achieve, I have a laser distance meter which allows me to to have each R&L speaker within a couple millimeters from the listening spot, right now the speakers are firing to the left and right of my shoulders. I will see what Dave at Ascends has to say about the optimal placement of the 340's, I will experiment and post replies. Thank you.
Jeff
 
ahblaza

ahblaza

Audioholic Field Marshall
Jeff 'n Sholling, my name is not Grant. Jeff, maybe you wanted GranteedEV to expound on what I offered already??

I thought I already explained "wider spread"?

As for 13x26, well, it's too bad that the 13 is exactly half of 26. Anyways . . .

Lengthwise is best, and so it's good you have it that way. From there, the starting* point for listener distance to either front or back wall in a rectangular room is 38%.

Therefore, if your ears are 9.88 ft from the front wall, AND you wanted at least 3' off the front wall (and then add the depth of the speaker, let's see what is the 340, alright 10.5" depth) . . . you would be just about exactly on the dot 6' from each speaker, with 6' of space between the centers of the two speakers. But see, that could* look pretty funny (not that it wouldn't sound fantastic though).

Basically, there is no way you're going to get it all to work out perfectly, in terms of equilateral triangle, 3' from any given boundaries, with ideal listener position, with any semblance of using the room well in the aesthetic and practical senses.

If there was one of those things that mattered the most, I have read on more than one occasion that it is the position of the listener. I am sure it's still a generalization, as we could get carried away . . .

If say we went with 38% from the back* wall, you are then 16.12' from the front wall. Then you would be 12.245' from the fronts of the speakers (if they have 3' from front wall). Well now . . . if the space between the speakers was the same at 12.2' . . . well it's basically not even possible anymore, and definitely not desired, since the width of the room is 13'.

There is no silver bullet here, if you catch my drift. The drift I wanted you to catch was simply this: Keep a very open mind about experimentation of the placements of both speakers and yourself. Whew.
Jost, sorry for the reference to Grant, my mistake, I bet you had to take a breath after the long reply, you have answered my question to the fullest, I really appreciate your time and energy to respond to my somewhat naive questions. I can not thank you enough, Merry Christmas.
Jeff
 
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