Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1 Bookshelf Speaker Review

[silversurfer]

I got a feeling that is being conservative, especially when guys on the AV123 thread are comparing it to the Ref 1, and others I have read are comparing it to the BW 805S and DynAudio Focus 140.

Then again, I have not heard the thing yet.

 

[billnchristy]

Me neither! Nor have I heard the ref 1 or any bookshelf that cost over the cost of my Jordans.

I would love to hear all you list though.

 

[WmAx]

The point about the passives was this:

They all introduce phase issues,

That is also true of active crossovers. Even if you use a DSP active that uses convolution to provide linear phase; it will only = true for a given narrow design axis. As soon as you move off this narrow design axis, standard driver arrangements have substantial deviations in amplitude/phase response. You can only correct for one point.

Again I would really like to hear some, but I am afraid they would be too bright to me, but definitely would give them a chance!!

I suspect that would be true. But they look like they would be great to use with a quality equalizer. In fact, anyone whom really wants the ideal preference sound needs an equalizer.

I like the design, I like the enclosure, the dampening is super cool (I was actually thinking of trying something similar but with steel wool just for kicks), the drivers are great even stock etc...

Some 6-8 lb./ft^3 density mineral wool board is an ideal material. Has almost the exact properties of OC705, so far as acoustic absorption, but is much cheaper than OC.

-Chris

 

[billnchristy]

That is also true of active crossovers. Even if you use a DSP active that uses convolution to provide linear phase; it will only = true for a given narrow design axis. As soon as you move off this narrow design axis, standard driver arrangements have substantial deviations in amplitude/phase response. You can only correct for one point.

True, but I bet a solution for active comes before passive.

Thanks for the heads up on the mineral wool, where would I find some?

 

[gus6464]

I got a feeling that is being conservative, especially when guys on the AV123 thread are comparing it to the Ref 1, and others I have read are comparing it to the BW 805S and DynAudio Focus 140.

Then again, I have not heard the thing yet.

The bass on the B&W 805S is bleh. Not even a $12000 McIntosh and the most acoutically treated room ever could help them. But they do have mids and imaging that are out of this world.

 

[WmAx]

True, but I bet a solution for active comes before passive.

In the case of a *standard* driver arrangement, I am not aware of how this would be over come. But then there is the issue that linear phase has not been shown to be needed by any credible perceptual research. In fact, with real music program, it is shown to be largely irrelevant in [1] past credible research.

Thanks for the heads up on the mineral wool, where would I find some?

Your local commercial insulation contractor/supplier house. If it's hard to find, I can send you enough for a speaker pair for cost of the parcel post shipping and actual material cost(less then the parcel post).

-Chris

Footnotes
[1]
On the Audibility of Midrange Phase Distortion in Audio Systems
Stanley P. Lipshitz, Mark Pocock and John Vanderkooy
JAES, Vol. 30, No. 9, September, 1982, Pages 580-595

 

[silversurfer]

The bass on the B&W 805S is bleh.

That is the second time I have read something to that affect in the last couple of days.

 

[Tex-amp]

Im sorry dude, but there is no voodoo in this:

OPPIX stands for Optimized Paradromic Phase Integrated X-Over (crossover). This sophisticated variable slope crossover precisely aligns the acoustic phase response of multiple transducers at the exact point where the response of one transducer crosses over to another, with reference to a specific point in space. This precise alignment allows the transducers to mimic a single point source radiator, allowing for symmetrical dispersion even with an asymmetrical transducer layout while maintaining a linear frequency response and greatly reducing off-axis phase and response anomalies. It also avoids the undesirable frequency response anomalies commonly found with even the best coaxial drivers.

http://ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/SRM1/srm1tech.html

 

[Tex-amp]

We didn't directly compare the Ushers with the Ascends. The Ascends are in a different class all together. We put speakers of similar pricing up against each other and heard quite a dramatic increase in fidelity from the $400/pr to $800/pr price class as expected.

So are the rating then for speakers within its' own class?

 

[billnchristy]

Yeah I have read that Tex-amp.

Can you explain how it does that with inductors, caps and resistors though?

 

[Tom Andry]

Sorry for the late comments. Been out of town since this review was posted. Listening tests were done in my room non-blind. No matter what speaker review you read, you always need to hear them in your room to determine how your room will affect the sound. In my room, the bass was a bit heavy which affected how the midrange sounded. You may (and from reading this thread, some already have had) a different experience. Still, all in all, a very nice speaker with an absolutely beautiful finish. I LOVE bamboo and, as Gene, Clint, and J can attest, that was one inert cabinet. If the Sierra's are in your price range, they should definitely be added to your short list.

 

[gus6464]

That is the second time I have read something to that affect in the last couple of days.

Although with a small musical sub to complement them you would be in 2ch heaven.

 

[davef]

Hi billnchristy,

Can you explain how it does that with inductors, caps and resistors though?

I can, but then I would have to shoot you

There is no "voodoo" (using your own terminology) in the actual crossover.

The "voodoo" took place well before the crossover was designed. The voodoo was in designing the filters, Q, and phase response needed to achieve the dispersion characteristics that we were going after, what we call OPPIX -- which is a major component of the Sierra's exceptional imaging, as Tom made reference to in his review.

Once the desired response was modeled, we used digitally programmable filters to match the computer modeled response so we could test acoustically. Further tweaks were performed and the end result was that we had very precise filter specifications. From there it was a matter of designing the crossover that would come as close as to our target filters as possible, and then reducing crossover components while still coming exceptionally close to the target.

There is no "magic" in any passive (or active) filter that I know of.. The filters (crossover) are just the mechanical method of "how to get there".

In response to your question:

Can you explain how it does that with inductors, caps and resistors though?

Inductors, capacitors and resistors are the components needed to implement simple and complex filters and various other circuits required (from shallow slopes to steep slopes, impedance compensation, frequency response shaping and phase adjustments)

The real magic (or "voodoo") is knowing what to design for (and why) and then how to go about achieving this.

LEAP (as you previously mentioned) is a quick and dirty way to design standard filter topologies which can provide flat on-axis response (Linkwitz-Riley, Butterworth etc.) These often provide good results with predictable characteristics. Designing filters for which phase, off-axis dispersion, impedance and response shaping are all taken into consideration (for which specific characterstics of each are desired) is far more complex. You have to KNOW what your target is.

I am 100% for building and designing your own loudspeakers. Eventually, after much time spent and constant tweaking, you could end up with something that sounds better "to you" than a higher priced professionally engineered and designed product -- however, designing loudspeakers to appeal to tens (hundreds) of thousands of people is something else entirely.

How much free time do you have to spend modeling phase and dispersion characteristics and how they will react in various rooms? (if you had the knowledge to do so) I don't just mean a few hours a week, I am talking hundreds and hundreds of hours spent just on modeling. From there it was designing and choosing the components to *get there*

Certainly no magic in the crossover itself.... Is the "magic" in the magician's wand? The hat? The table? The Rabbit? Nope -- the magic is in putting all the non-magical parts together to achieve that seemingly magical reaction…

For anyone interested in the Sierra-1, I invite you to email me directly at davef -AT- ascendacoustics.com (I don't have enough posts to publish my email address)

Take care!!

 

[billnchristy]

Thanks Dave, that is just what I needed.

I would love to have access to that kind of gear.

It sounds like you guys certainly hit the nail on the head considering the only "bad" thing that was said about the speakers was too much bass, and that is very subjective indeed.

And you are right, it is very easy to please yourself but not so easy to please the masses, I have learned that with the looks of my PC speaker design.

Thanks for the response and I hope to get to hear your gems some day.

 

[Tex-amp]

Yeah I have read that Tex-amp.

Can you explain how it does that with inductors, caps and resistors though?

If I could, then it wouldn't be voodoo would it?

 

[billnchristy]

Hahaha.

I think Dave did a pretty good job, though it seems more like pre-engineering than anything...

Mfrs have it good being able to have speakers built to their exact specs. I am truly envious of that!

 

[silversurfer]

What is "pre-engineering"? It is all engineering.

 

[billnchristy]

You get your jollies busting my balls dont you professor?

 

[silversurfer]

You get your jollies busting my balls dont you professor?

Well, there wouldn't be any ball busting if you made smarter posts. I know you are capable of it.

though it seems more like pre-engineering than anything...

But seriously, how do you define "pre-engineering" and how do you seperate it from the engineering or the design process? This is not about busting your balls, but understanding your train of thought.

 

[Seth=L]

how do you define "pre-engineering" and how do you seperate it from the engineering or the design process?

Pre - En-gen-eer-ing (noun): what Bose's marketing team did before they decided to engineer and manufacture cheap crappy speakers and sell them for ridiculously high prices.

How is that?