Are These Finds Good Deals?

Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
So this is interesting! A Behringer EP2500, new unopened box for $375.


2400 watts into 4 ohms bridged mono. That'd match up really nice with my new sub! $375 seems a li'l pricey tho. I have no clue, can't find much about original retail online.
This guy's dreaming. I found a couple on ebay in the $2-300 range. I can get this one for just a hair over $200 shipped.

 
Eppie

Eppie

Senior Audioholic
One thing was brought about those also by TLS is that the tweets in those models have some history with blowing. At least for a friend of his. Linky to the post...

And another 948 with tweeter problems. I don't play my music terribly loud but the close up photos I've seen of those tweeters make them look not very robust. It's such a highly rated speaker but I'm getting very leery about purchasing them and then having to get replacements from France.
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/focal-948-tweeters-leaking.3190053/#post-60627738

Well, April/May is usually performance bonus time here :cool:. Guess I'll play around with my current setup some more and see how much doe I have to play with. Next Best Thing Studio (Youtube) linked to some nice acoustic panels from Ukraine. That might help to tame the highs and then I can replace my sub. It's been acting weird. Usually have the power set to Auto, but the output was getting lower and lower. I had to unplug it from the wall to reset the electronics so now I am switching it manually.

I've been looking in the $5k Cdn ($4k US) range which would get me mid-tier Paradigm towers, Prestige or Founder. So tempted to go the extra $1k to $2k as that would take me to what I consider the next level. I think my ideal would be a pair of Salks with the RAAL tweeter, like the Silk tower or the Canadian made Totem Tribe, which is nice and compact and well suited to the size room I have. Might need to check the impedance curve on the Totems though as they are 4 ohm.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
Now that was a good deal. I hope you got it.
I did not, but did learn that it's a really beefy amp and worth what he's asking. I was erroneously comparing it to the current EP2000. It was actually replaced by the EP4000, which is a 4000 watt amp in bridged mode! That's a lot more than I need. I found another one identical to mine (3000 watts bridged) for $349.


I'm not in a huge hurry tho, what I have now is more than sufficient even with a channel out. I'm fine passing on that one and keep looking for another deal.
 
Eppie

Eppie

Senior Audioholic
I did not, but did learn that it's a really beefy amp and worth what he's asking. I was erroneously comparing it to the current EP2000. It was actually replaced by the EP4000, which is a 4000 watt amp in bridged mode! That's a lot more than I need. I found another one identical to mine (3000 watts bridged) for $349.


I'm not in a huge hurry tho, what I have now is more than sufficient even with a channel out. I'm fine passing on that one and keep looking for another deal.
Any good repair techs in your area? It may just be that the output transistors are blown and need replacing. That shouldn't be too costly if the parts are reasonable. Helps to have the service manual to set the bias back to spec, but if one channel is good, then an experienced tech can use the good channel for reference and set the other channel to match. As long as it wasn't a cascade failure that blew out parts down the line it may be a simple job. On most power amps the output transistors are usually the first thing to go.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
Any good repair techs in your area? It may just be that the output transistors are blown and need replacing. That shouldn't be too costly if the parts are reasonable. Helps to have the service manual to set the bias back to spec, but if one channel is good, then an experienced tech can use the good channel for reference and set the other channel to match. As long as it wasn't a cascade failure that blew out parts down the line it may be a simple job. On most power amps the output transistors are usually the first thing to go.
Hmm... I have no idea, but that's not a terrible suggestion. If I can get a repair for reasonable cost I'd much rather do that. As it is now I know so little about that amp. The guy who gave it to me explained how he had it set up and it just confused me.

"The way I had it set, B was flowing into A. So when they're combined A is the one with output."
"So the input and output would be on A"
"If you set it to stereo, A input/out would be inoperable, and B will be the live channel"


What is he saying? "B flowing into A"? I'm currently using "A" for input and output, and it's working great. Is he saying that A and B are now combined into 1 channel bridged? If so I'm already getting full power. I think?
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Spartan
Hmm... I have no idea, but that's not a terrible suggestion. If I can get a repair for reasonable cost I'd much rather do that. As it is now I know so little about that amp. The guy who gave it to me explained how he had it set up and it just confused me.

"The way I had it set, B was flowing into A. So when they're combined A is the one with output."
"So the input and output would be on A"
"If you set it to stereo, A input/out would be inoperable, and B will be the live channel"


What is he saying? "B flowing into A"? I'm currently using "A" for input and output, and it's working great. Is he saying that A and B are now combined into 1 channel bridged? If so I'm already getting full power. I think?
Several of the bridge-able stereo amps I’ve seen require you to run channel one + and channel 2 - when you connect to a speaker, but that is with binding posts, not XLRs or Speakons.
Have you looked for an online manual for that amp? :)
 
Eppie

Eppie

Senior Audioholic
I'm with Ryan. Check the manual. :D
That connection method sounds like the way the old Bryston amps used to work. Not going to hazard a guess but the method Ryan mentions is more what I'm used to seeing.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Spartan
@Pogre This is what I'm looking at for powering Subs, depending on the path I choose:
All told, pretty much standard for people running some of the Big-Boy Sub Drivers. For the price, I think it's hard to beat. ;)
Of course a few cat's I've seen are runnning non-dsp amps with some version of MiniDSP processing. I am curious to learn if there is a difference in the processing power or capabilities of the Behringer program vs MiniDSP.
 
adk highlander

adk highlander

pessimistic optimist
And another 948 with tweeter problems. I don't play my music terribly loud but the close up photos I've seen of those tweeters make them look not very robust. It's such a highly rated speaker but I'm getting very leery about purchasing them and then having to get replacements from France.
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/focal-948-tweeters-leaking.3190053/#post-60627738

Well, April/May is usually performance bonus time here :cool:. Guess I'll play around with my current setup some more and see how much doe I have to play with. Next Best Thing Studio (Youtube) linked to some nice acoustic panels from Ukraine. That might help to tame the highs and then I can replace my sub. It's been acting weird. Usually have the power set to Auto, but the output was getting lower and lower. I had to unplug it from the wall to reset the electronics so now I am switching it manually.

I've been looking in the $5k Cdn ($4k US) range which would get me mid-tier Paradigm towers, Prestige or Founder. So tempted to go the extra $1k to $2k as that would take me to what I consider the next level. I think my ideal would be a pair of Salks with the RAAL tweeter, like the Silk tower or the Canadian made Totem Tribe, which is nice and compact and well suited to the size room I have. Might need to check the impedance curve on the Totems though as they are 4 ohm.
Run and hide from Totem. The only thing positive I have heard about speakers from that company are from owners defending their purchase. Most response graphs from those speakers is downright scary. What about the Kanta 1 if you can find a deal? Are you looking just at towers?
 
Eppie

Eppie

Senior Audioholic
@Pogre , I had a quick look at the manual, and that amp appears to be designed for music studios and bands. It shows mixing boards or distribution modules connected to the input. Still great for home audio too. Also of note is that the speaker connections have 4 pins for distributing power in various ways. According to the Quick Start Guide, the rear of amp shows the connection options. I zoomed in and it shows:
CH A: 1+ / 1-
CH B: 2+ / 2-
Bridge: 1+ / 2+ with 2+ being the negative.
which shows bridged mode using one connection from each channel as expected.
Below that is CH B: 1+ / 1-.

So what I gather from that is that you can run two speakers with one cable on CH A. Pins 1+/1- for one amp and pins 2+/2- for the other amp. The professional speakers would be wired to have 1+/1- for the first connection and then feed 2+/2- to a second speaker. It allows a single cable run and also allows bi-amping. If you want separate cable runs, you connect CH A 1+/1- to one speaker and CH B 1+/1- to the other speaker. For bridged mode, you use 1+ / 2+ from CH A and change Mode to Bridged.
https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0CHW
 
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Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
@Pogre , I had a quick look at the manual, and that amp appears to be designed for music studios and bands. It shows mixing boards or distribution modules connected to the input. Still great for home audio too. Also of note is that the speaker connections have 4 pins for distributing power in various ways. According to the Quick Start Guide, the rear of amp shows the connection options. I zoomed in and it shows:
CH A: 1+ / 1-
CH B: 2+ / 2-
Bridge: 1+ / 2+ with 2+ being the negative.
which shows bridged mode using one connection from each channel as expected.
Below that is CH B: 1+ / 1-.

So what I gather from that is that you can run two speakers with one cable on CH A. Pins 1+/1- for one amp and pins 2+/2- for the other amp. The professional speakers would be wired to have 1+/1- for the first connection and then feed 2+/2- to a second speaker. It allows a single cable run. If you want separate cable runs, you connect CH A 1+/1- to one speakers and CH B 1+/1- to the other speaker. For bridged mode, you use 1+ / 2+ from CH A and change Mode to Bridged.
https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0CHW
Thank you for taking the time to look into it for me. I've gone through the manual and it just confused me. I'm gonna have to roll up my sleeves and really study to grasp what's going on here.

I still have no clue what the dude is saying about "B flows into A". The wording suggests to me that he's combined the channels, and bridging is a thing with this amp so..? I dunno. I've flipped through the menus and read through the manual and still don't know. I haven't gone in and changed anything and left it set up the way the previous owner had it. I did get confirmation that there's no onboard dsp applied.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
@Pogre This is what I'm looking at for powering Subs, depending on the path I choose:
All told, pretty much standard for people running some of the Big-Boy Sub Drivers. For the price, I think it's hard to beat. ;)
Of course a few cat's I've seen are runnning non-dsp amps with some version of MiniDSP processing. I am curious to learn if there is a difference in the processing power or capabilities of the Behringer program vs MiniDSP.
Yeah, that one is a beast. You can power a couple of subs with that, no problem.
 
Eppie

Eppie

Senior Audioholic
Run and hide from Totem. The only thing positive I have heard about speakers from that company are from owners defending their purchase. Most response graphs from those speakers is downright scary. What about the Kanta 1 if you can find a deal? Are you looking just at towers?
I'm not fond of all Totems but the Tribe has a few glowing reviews. I currently have bookshelves but I miss the bass that you get in a tower, so I'm kind of leaning away from other bookshelf speakers but always willing to give anything a listen. The Kanta 1 does have a much better tweeter.
 
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Eppie

Eppie

Senior Audioholic
Thank you for taking the time to look into it for me. I've gone through the manual and it just confused me. I'm gonna have to roll up my sleeves and really study to grasp what's going on here.

I still have no clue what the dude is saying about "B flows into A". The wording suggests to me that he's combined the channels, and bridging is a thing with this amp so..? I dunno. I've flipped through the menus and read through the manual and still don't know. I haven't gone in and changed anything and left it set up the way the previous owner had it. I did get confirmation that there's no onboard dsp applied.
With a 4 pin plug you have both CH A and CH B in one connector. In bridge mode, you use pin 1+ from CH A and 1+ from CH B, put that's confusing for some, so they label it as 2+ from CH B. So, yeah, B kind'a flows into A but he did not describe it accurately. ;)
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
Several of the bridge-able stereo amps I’ve seen require you to run channel one + and channel 2 - when you connect to a speaker, but that is with binding posts, not XLRs or Speakons.
Have you looked for an online manual for that amp? :)
Not going to hazard a guess but the method Ryan mentions is more what I'm used to seeing.
Same. That's how we'd connect subs bridged to stereo amps in cars too, but all I have are speakon/XLR/TRS connections. It is bridgeable tho so they must combine internally or what you mentioned about the pins in the speakon plug. I'm gonna have to break down and ask him again. I've been avoiding it because he already answered me. I just don't know wtf he's saying...
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
With a 4 pin plug you have both CH A and CH B in one connector. In bridge mode, you use pin 1+ from CH A and 1+ from CH B, put that's confusing for some, so they label it as 2+ from CH B. So, yeah, B kind'a flows into A but he did not describe it accurately. ;)
So would you guess it's operating as bridged right now? Full rated power at 4 ohms? That'd be 3000 watts. If so I'm already set.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
Really, worst case scenario I'm still getting 900 watts. The sub is rated to handle a lot more but 900 watts is still pretty substantial. Especially nearfield. It'd be nice just to know tho. Plus I'm considering moving it up front and putting the 2 HSUs behind me so I'll be demanding more from it.

PS: @Danzilla31 would know about sufficient power now that I think of it. I think he's only using a 500 watt amp for his.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Spartan
So would you guess it's operating as bridged right now? Full rated power at 4 ohms? That'd be 3000 watts. If so I'm already set.
Dude may have had somebody else set it up for him and doesn't necessarily understand himself. ;)
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
Dude may have had somebody else set it up for him and doesn't necessarily understand himself. ;)
What little I could decipher from him is the A channel output only works with A/B combined, or mono. In straight stereo only the B channel output works. The A output is the one that does not work in stereo mode so that's the "blown channel", or more likely inoperative output? Meaning the amp section is unaffected?

I'm using the A output so it is not in stereo. "B flows into A". I'm making a bunch of assumptions, but to me it sounds like it's bridged, no?
 

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