Are Surge Protectors bunk or beneficial?

JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Ninja
Even 386 computers contained internal protection that make trivial currents irrelevant.
Since computer power-supplies are not related to the processor in any meaningful way, what "internal protection" are you thinking of?

The AC-DC conversion and voltage step-down process resulted in significant surge suppression for the gear underneath. A bigger problem in PCs was drops in power. Very short ones would be countered by the capacitance of the power supply, but sustained under-voltages would result in all sorts of problems.

Because of the protection provided by the power supply (with most damage I saw causing the power-supply to fail or become erratic, but not the attached boards), most of the damage I ran into came in via other methods. In the old days (to be honest, it's been a long time since I've seen a computer taken by a surge) that was through the phone line or network cable (there was a tendency back in the day to run network connections "in the open" or barely buried. In particular, the city I used to work for had a Cat5 run barely underground between two trailers. They did not put it in a grounded conduit: so about every other month I had to replace MAUs on either end).

The MB voltage issue is also run into with overclocking / underclocking: where one can need to up the voltage to the CPU in order to accommodate higher clock speeds.

This can also fry the CPU (either literally, though modern CPUs have thermal protection circuits, or though electron tunneling) with sometimes only a fraction of a volt overclocking.

I am simply repeating what has been well understood and demonstrated for over 100 years. Another sentence repeated because somehow these realities get ignored in the replies.
As has been pointed out: both business and the military use more than just an external earthing.

Even the one time you cited a source that was not your own site: that source sells more than external earth ground. Heck: they even sell plug-in strips.

What plug-in protector claims to protect everything - let alone claims to protect anything?
I suspect the answers are "none" (everything) and "all" (anything)

Where are those plug-in protector specs that even claim protection? I still don't see those numbers posted here. I do not even see protection claims for a *subjective* secondary current. Where is that protection defined with numbers? Since the plug-in protector is a complete protection solution, then where are its numbers?
In any whitepaper / spec-sheet. Though more: several offer guarantees on the attached electronics (pretty much every consumer UPS manufacturer, APC, TECO, etc). Whether you believe they actually work or not, obviously protection is claimed.

Breaker box ground wire should go through the foundation and down to earth. Every foot shorter means even better surge protection. Eliminate sharp wire bends. Ground wire is separated from other non-grounding wires. Concepts that are not discussed when a plug-in protector sells for obscene profits rather than for protection.
It's also a problem for your "church steeples". BTW, if the protection is absolute and complete (which you've repeatedly claimed) how can it get better?

Your telco, connected to overhead wires all over town, suffers about 100 surges with each storm - and no damage.
Then why did storms so often take out my phone?

And does not waste money on expensive, ineffective plug-in protectors. This paragraph alone is more than sufficient to define the difference between 'whole house' and plug-in protectors.
Actually the local TelCo uses plug-in protectors... on their office equipment. They also use large Lebiert-style units on their server equipment, and in-line surge suppression at junctions.

A supplier to Verizon: http://www.surgesuppression.com/productline.html

Moving on: a frying protector circuit means no protection. It fries to absorb hundreds of thousands of joules? Total nonsense. And a violation of MOV manufacturer specifications. MOVs that fry provide no protection, violate what the MOV manufacturer intended, AND can even create those scary pictures. But when one recommends on hearsay, then a frying protector means protection? Did those scary pictures not mean anything?
MOVs don't fry (well, generally speaking. They can explode or fail). They are ceramic. They cause fires around them.

What an MOV does is provide a path for over-votage: and it should short to ground. This can make an MOV very hot. A good suppressor design will include a thermal breaker that opens the circuit (cutting all power) in the event that the temperature rises to high.

The MOV protects downstream from over-voltage, the breaker protects the MOV from exploding and the surrounding material from catching fire.

[quote\In another discussion, one said, "My protector sacrificed itself to save my computer."[/quote] We call that "a fuse".

But many surge suppressors are badly designed; particularly those $7 you keep mentioning. One example is that they tend to fail closed. The suppressor has stopped operating, but is still passing current to the equipment on the other side.

Or view the V-I charts for MOVs. How excessively high is that voltage if a MOV fries? A 330 volt protector that fries means a voltage well above 900 volts confronts the 120 volt appliance.
That's why good equipment fails open. If it fails, it presents zero volts down the line.

A protector acting "as a high tech electronic fuse, in that only a limited amount of current can pass through" - total nonsense. Read numbers on any fuse or circuit breaker? For example, a glass cartridge fuse says 250 volts. If it opens (blows) to block a surge greater than 250 volts, then the open fuse continues to conduct. Does not stop anything. Did you read those numbers?
Really? When my fuses went out (indeed when my circuit breakers switch) my lights go out.

How, in your opinion, does a fuse with an open circuit (a blown fuse) conduct electricity? Vacuum arcing? If you have enough current at your fuse-box that vacuum arcing is preferable to other paths to ground: you have some more serious issue that I've seen.

Nothing stops (or limits) a surge current. That high tech fuse concept is popular myth promoted when basic electrical knowledge does not exist.
Irrelevant. The goal was not to stop the surge: it was to stop the surge from reaching vulnerable equipment. I've never had a surge in my AC line effect a piece of equipment that was not plugged in; and I'm pretty sure no one else on this forum has either.
 
Last edited:
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Ninja
As I've said before: Westom has a good point. You need to make sure that you've got a good path to ground on your house. That starts with the grounding rods outside your house, requires grounding wires running back to anywhere you are hoping to have surge suppression.

He's also right in recommending a lighting arrestor (at least I think he's recommending one) on the house as a whole. ISiberian's link in the first post was very good for that, and I recommend it highly.

The rest of the rant, obviously, I think is bunk. Equipment is susceptible to over voltages, and in many cases under voltages; and surge arrestors are generally geared at the most extreme of power irregularities.

For computers, I recommend UPSs; because power loss = data loss, and because sustained undervoltage = erratic behavior = data loss.

For AV gear: I still recommend it (even Westom has admitted that electrical motors are vulnerable to undervoltages); but if not, a good power strip seems a sane investment in protection. I agree with Isiberian's site: you want to find one that ceases to conduct current when it fails.
 
newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top