timoteo

timoteo

Audioholic General
Now that i have my sound the way i like it, i need your help with choosing a good T.V. For the last 2 months or so i have been checking out different places and looking at different tvs, asking the guys that work there their oppinions of PLASMAs vs LCDs vs LEDs etc. I feel like ive just been getting a run around of whatever the stores are trying to push for the week. Its a bit frustrating.

Bottom line is that from what my eyes have seen, the Samsung LEDs look nice. So do the Sony XBR9s. Then i have read that a good ol' plasma is the way to go. I am really confused.

So here is what i want from my display & im willing to listen to any advise: 46"-55"...minimum 120hz...simple frame...living room setup...movies from bluray. Been considering either a Sony XBR LCD or a Samsung LED. Open to any advise but cant spend more than $2200. Need to figure this out before the end of November.

Thank you for all your help!!
 
A

Amherst

Audioholic Intern
If you hurry you can get a new Pioneer KRP-500M plasma at that price point.
This screen is capable of producing your 1080p BluRay pixel for pixel.
Motion is not an issue for this plasma as it is for every LCD or Led - that I have laid eyes on.
These units are selling out and no longer are produced.
This screen may very well be one of the best ever made and will put to shame any of the screens you mentioned.
A note though, this is strictly a monitor which has no tuner. The stand and speakers are available separately.
Most people don't need a tuner anyway. Your set top box (if you use cable/sat) is actually the tuner.

Nice sound systems you have there! The Pio would be a great match.
 
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C

clouso

Banned
Now that i have my sound the way i like it, i need your help with choosing a good T.V. For the last 2 months or so i have been checking out different places and looking at different tvs, asking the guys that work there their oppinions of PLASMAs vs LCDs vs LEDs etc. I feel like ive just been getting a run around of whatever the stores are trying to push for the week. Its a bit frustrating.

Bottom line is that from what my eyes have seen, the Samsung LEDs look nice. So do the Sony XBR9s. Then i have read that a good ol' plasma is the way to go. I am really confused.

So here is what i want from my display & im willing to listen to any advise: 46"-55"...minimum 120hz...simple frame...living room setup...movies from bluray. Been considering either a Sony XBR LCD or a Samsung LED. Open to any advise but cant spend more than $2200. Need to figure this out before the end of November.

Thank you for all your help!!
dont make the same mistake then me...go plasma right away!...i bought a led with local dimming at first and the ''blooming'' issue that all led lcd's have came out....blooming is when a bright object is on a dark background it makes some kind of a white cloud and it is so annoying!...you should go on panasonic.com and see there..you could even get a tc-p50v10 for 2100$ i think..the v10 series is the best hdtv that came out this year and also check the g10 series wich comes very close behind the v10...that is my opinion...good luck!
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Now that i have my sound the way i like it, i need your help with choosing a good T.V. For the last 2 months or so i have been checking out different places and looking at different tvs, asking the guys that work there their oppinions of PLASMAs vs LCDs vs LEDs etc. I feel like ive just been getting a run around of whatever the stores are trying to push for the week. Its a bit frustrating.

Bottom line is that from what my eyes have seen, the Samsung LEDs look nice. So do the Sony XBR9s. Then i have read that a good ol' plasma is the way to go. I am really confused.

So here is what i want from my display & im willing to listen to any advise: 46"-55"...minimum 120hz...simple frame...living room setup...movies from bluray. Been considering either a Sony XBR LCD or a Samsung LED. Open to any advise but cant spend more than $2200. Need to figure this out before the end of November.

Thank you for all your help!!
I wouldn't call them a joke. They allow for ultra thin screens, but you won't get an improved contrast ratio. Contrast is king for movie watching. As a PJ owner I can tell you contrast mattters more than even resolution. You may not see it now, but in 2 months you will. Think long term. Get the plasma.
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
The best display for you depends on your viewing environment.

It is not as simple as saying "get plasma" or "get LCD". There are strengths and weaknesses of individual displays. The underlying technology isn't the same regardless of the exact model.

There are four major things to consider that will help determine the best display for you:

1) your lighting conditions.

It matters a lot whether you are watching in a dark room, a dim room, a well-lit room or a bright room.

Again, it isn't as simple as "plasma is better in a dim or dark room; LCD is better in a bright room". The truth is that you need to consider how reflective the screen surface is - some LCDs have very glossy screens, making them a bad choice for a well-lit or bright room - some plasmas have good anti-reflective screens, so they are ok in a bright room.

You also want to consider how well the display retains its black levels in a lit room. Some plasmas "wash out" in bright lighting so that their blacks look grey. Some LCDs do the same thing.

Peak brightness is another concern. Usually, this only comes up if your room is very bright, but some displays are capable of producing a brighter image than others. And again, it isn't as simple as just LCD vs. LED vs. plasma. It's a model by model thing.

2) Your viewing distance.

The distance from your eyes to the screen determines the screen size that you should be after. In order to see the benefits of HD and avoid seeing individual pixels, your field of view should be no smaller than 24 degrees and no larger than 40 degrees. The "ideal" field of view is about 30-32 degrees.

So figure out the exact distance (in inches) from where your eyes will be in your primary seat to where the screen surface will be. Remember to consider things like whether the display will be mounted on a wall or sitting on a stand. You want the actual distance from eyes to screen because it makes a big difference!

Take your distance from eyes to screen and divide it by 2.05 to get the minimum screen size that you should consider.

Divide the distance by 1.2 to get the absolute maximum screen size (which is too large for my tastes, but some people like it :p )

Divide the distance by 1.626 to get the "ideal" 30 degree field of view screen size or divide the distance by 1.52 to get the 32 degree field of view (which is my own personal favorite).

So, as examples, if you have a distance of 10 feet from eyes to screen.

120 inches is your distance. Minimum screen size to consider would be 58". Maximum would be 100". And your "ideal" screen size would be about 74" - 79"

Keep in mind though that if you move a flat panel from a wall mount to a table-top stand mount, you could easily bring the screen 1-2 feet closer to your eyes. If the distance from eyes to screen drops from 10 feet to 8 feet, suddenly, your "ideal" screen size range drops from 74" - 79" to just 59" - 63" ;)

3) Your viewing angle (all seats considered)

Virtually all displays look their best when viewed straight on. But many setups have seats that are off to the sides. As such, those seats are viewing the display at an angle. And not all displays continue to show a good image when viewed from "off-axis".

In this case, virtually all plasmas continue to show a uniform image, even when viewed from an angle off to the side. Some LCDs shift in colour, drop in brightness and drop in contrast when viewed from an angle. But some LCDs are not too bad and maintain a good image. Virtually all LED backlit LCDs (at the moment) have very poor off-axis viewing.

4) Your budget.

After all of that explanation, my point is this: try not to make your decision based upon "plasma vs. LCD vs. LED". Instead, try to consider your viewing environment. You lighting conditions, viewing distance and viewing angles will determine the best display for you. If it happens to be a plasma, that doesn't mean that ALL plasmas will be your best choice. If it happens to be an LCD, that doesn't mean that ALL LCDs will be your best choice. It's going to be model specific depending on your unique situation :)

So, if you would like a personalized recommendation, please provide the details of your viewing environment. We already have your budget. You have said that you cannot spend more than $2200. If that is a "hard cap" we can certainly work within it. If there is ANY "wiggle" room, please let us know ;)

You also mentioned wanting 120Hz. This is something that requires a bit of clarification.

Do you want 120Hz because you want "frame interpolation"?

If you are not familiar with the term, here is a quick break down:

Virtually all movies and most TV shows are shot either on film or using an HD Video camera. Either way, the images are captured at a rate of 24 frames per second. Almost all sports and some TV shows (such as soap operas) are captured on video at a rate of 30 or 60 frames per second.

Until very recently, virtually all displays (in North America) refreshed at a rate of 60 Hz (60 times a second). For most movies and TV shows, this created a problem because 24 frames do not evenly fit into 60. The "solution" was to create a 2:3 cadence pattern by showing frame 1 of 24 two times, then frame 2 of 24 three times, then frame 3 of 24 two times, then frame 4 of 24 three times, and so on. This "2:3 pulldown" created a slight "stutter" in the motion of the images, which is called "judder".

More recently, we can now purchase displays that offer refresh rates other than 60 Hz. 120 Hz is a good choice because 30, 60 and 24 all fit evenly into 120. So with a 120 Hz display, we can eliminate "judder" and simply show every frame of a 24 fps source five times each. Another solution is to have a 72 Hz or 96 Hz mode that is specifically for 24 fps content, while a second 60 Hz mode is for 30 or 60 fps content.

But that is only if you want to eliminate judder. Almost all 120 Hz or 240 Hz LCDs also offer something called "frame interpolation". Frame interpolation comes under many different Trademark names such as: MotionFlow, SmoothMotion, Auto Motion Plus, TruMotion, and others. But regardless of the name, they all do the same basic thing, which is to create "new" frames that never existed in the original recording.

So a 120 Hz LCD that has some brand of frame interpolation will do the following:

the processor will "look" at frames 1 of 24 and 2 of 24. It will analyze the differences between those two frames and then it will create "new" frames and insert those "new" frames in between the original frames. Most displays with frame interpolation offer a few different "levels" of the feature, which typically correlates to the number of "new" frames that the display "makes up" and inserts in between the original frames of the source.

The result that your eyes see can look very different, depending on the processing. Sometimes, the images will look more smooth and clear. But sometimes, artifacts (mistakes) will appear. Many people describe a sensation that movies and TV shows now look like a soap opera or home video. Some people like that sensation, and some people do not.

So what is your goal with the 120 Hz request? Do you simply want to eliminate judder? Or are you after frame interpolation? There is no "right" or "wrong" answer, but it makes a large difference because some displays offer modes that eliminate judder, but they do not offer frame interpolation.

If your primary concern is eliminating "blur", that is a totally different matter. Sadly, marketing has led people to believe that "120 Hz" has something to do with reducing "blur" or motion artifacts. In reality, it has almost nothing to do with "blur". Blur is a matter of pixel response time and motion resolution and the quality of either of those metrics is not indicated at all by the "120 Hz" spec ;)

Anywho, get back to us with the details of your viewing environment and we can help you to buy the best display for you.

As one, final thought, you will not be getting a recommendation for an LED backlit LCD. That is because there is not a single LED backlit LCD - whether edge-lit or local dimming - that provides good image quality IMO. That doesn't mean some LED backlit LCD in the future might not be great. But right now, every LED backlit LCD on the market has problems with uneven illumination, fluctuations in background brightness levels, terrible off-axis viewing and (depending on the exact model) things like "halos" around bright objects on a dark background or shifts in colour depending upon the luminance level. If you are going to spend the kind of money that LED backlit LCD displays cost, you might as well get an accurate, good display, yes? ;)

So no LED recommendations from me. But I might certainly recommend either a certain plasma or LCD model, depending on your viewing conditions.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Now that i have my sound the way i like it, i need your help with choosing a good T.V. For the last 2 months or so i have been checking out different places and looking at different tvs, asking the guys that work there their oppinions of PLASMAs vs LCDs vs LEDs etc. I feel like ive just been getting a run around of whatever the stores are trying to push for the week. Its a bit frustrating.

Bottom line is that from what my eyes have seen, the Samsung LEDs look nice. So do the Sony XBR9s. Then i have read that a good ol' plasma is the way to go. I am really confused.

So here is what i want from my display & im willing to listen to any advise: 46"-55"...minimum 120hz...simple frame...living room setup...movies from bluray. Been considering either a Sony XBR LCD or a Samsung LED. Open to any advise but cant spend more than $2200. Need to figure this out before the end of November.

Thank you for all your help!!
Easy.

1. Kuro Signature Panel. Ok, you might not be able to afford 151, 141, or even 111 atm, but the KRP500M is the way to go. Look, you could be a billionaire, the King of Saudi Arabia, Bill Gates, and you cannot find a better quality display for the size. The fact that it's even within your budget is kind of neat. I just stopped into BB recently, and the equivalent panel, albeit with consumer features, at 50" was well over $5,000.

2. Panasonic V10 also fits in budget. The best TV they've ever made.

3. Panasonic G15/G10/S1 etc all fit into budget, with a lot of money in the pocket.



120 hz = catch phrase for the masses, sort of an excuse me to the plasma competition. Really, the best thing about 120 is that it's the common denominator of 24 and 60, so that 3:2 pulldown is avoided. Of course Joe 6p doesn't have a clue, and probably mistakes FI for 120.

LED = another catch phrase for the masses. IT'S STILL AN LCD TV!! Just because my projector uses a mercury lamp for a light source, I don't call it a MERCURY PROJECTOR! It's still d-ila.


LCD.... maybe..... if you have direct sunlight hitting the panel as a norm, and even then it comes down to specific models. Or, that you want to save $3 a month on electricity. Everything else, and I mean everything else, plasma wins. Color saturation, color accuracy, absolute blacks, black detail, on/off contrast, ANSI contrast, intrascene contrast, pricing . . . and then go offaxis somewhat and then all of the above becomes even more extreme.

I don't own either, my only display is a projector. I can guarantee you, in the PJ forums, when they try to compare the best tv with the pj's, or at various price points, there has never ever once been an lcd flat panel in the discussion. Not once that I have ever seen. It's always plasma.

So, the final reasons to avoid plasma could be 1) unbridled amounts of ambient lighting 2) you live up in stratospheric altitudes like strube does.
 
A

Amherst

Audioholic Intern
If your primary concern is eliminating "blur", that is a totally different matter. Sadly, marketing has led people to believe that "120 Hz" has something to do with reducing "blur" or motion artifacts. In reality, it has almost nothing to do with "blur". Blur is a matter of pixel response time and motion resolution and the quality of either of those metrics is not indicated at all by the "120 Hz" spec ;)
Please show me an LCD or LED display that doesn't have smear (blur).
Have yet to see one. Look at a fast paced movie or sports,ie hockey in HD.
Nothing in the OP's price range can even come close to black levels, blur, or any other metric you would like to apply. Pio kuro= one incredible display.

And yes 120hz doesn't mean a hill of beans, but pixel for pixel reproduction does.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Please show me an LCD or LED display that doesn't have smear (blur).
Have yet to see one. Look at a fast paced movie or sports,ie hockey in HD.
Nothing in the OP's price range can even come close to black levels, blur, or any other metric you would like to apply. Pio kuro= one incredible display.

And yes 120hz doesn't mean a hill of beans, but pixel for pixel reproduction does.
I wonder if you could identify it in a blind test. :p Let's keep it on topic. You clearly misread his post. FR said nothing either way. He said every set needs to be evaluated. Ignoring such wisdom is unwise. What if an LCD passes plasma in image quality? Avoiding generalization will help use to be better scientists in this case. Both are still maturing technologies and LCD has some promising spin-offs.
 
A

Amherst

Audioholic Intern
I wonder if you could identify it in a blind test. :p Let's keep it on topic. You clearly misread his post. FR said nothing either way. He said every set needs to be evaluated. Ignoring such wisdom is unwise. What if an LCD passes plasma in image quality? Avoiding generalization will help use to be better scientists in this case. Both are still maturing technologies and LCD has some promising spin-offs.
I absolutely could not identify smear in a blind test.:rolleyes:
I can tell you however that I have yet to not see smear in almost every flat panel TV I have seen, including most plasma models, but barring the pioneer line.

Back on track: The OP stipulated a budget and a size display. Given those two parameters, please recommend a better display for quality and or value.

Edit: Forgot about the old CRT flats, don't think they had smear issues either. Any LCD has a long way to go to match a kuro. The pixel for pixel the 500m is capable of can not be ignored when playing a 1080p source, with a good surround set-up you are in another world.
 
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lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
I absolutely could not identify smear in a blind test.:rolleyes:
I can tell you however that I have yet to not see smear in almost every flat panel TV I have seen, including most plasma models, but barring the pioneer line.

Back on track: The OP stipulated a budget and a size display. Given those two parameters, please recommend a better display for quality and or value.
Sure I will
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/625001-REG/Optoma_Technology_HD20_HD20_1700_ANSI_Lumens.html

http://www.carada.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=PROJECTION-SCREEN-H110C

;)
 
A

Amherst

Audioholic Intern
Boy, you got me there! I was thinking the only other alternative to best the kuro panel would be projection.
Question: Are we under the $2200 price point?:D

Edit: Question Two - Are we not in the tv+displays section of the forum?
Question Three - Can you fold that screen in half to fit the OP's wall?
 
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lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Boy, you got me there! I was thinking the only other alternative to best the kuro panel would be projection.
Question: Are we under the $2200 price point?:D

Edit: Question Two - Are we not in the tv+displays section of the forum?
Question Three - Can you fold that screen in half to fit the OP's wall?
the PJ setup is most certainly under the 2200 price point. And that's with an expensive screen.

I prefer DLP tv's myself.

http://www.appliancecenterdirect.com/product.php?productid=6930&cat=0&page=12
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
Whelp, just to be clear,

I wrote the lengthy post that I did because timoteo said that he is willing to listen to any advice :)

The way I read it, his list of requirements spoke more to certain desires about the final experience. He might have listed those desires as a sort of "spec sheet", but I chose to read between the lines and interpret that "spec sheet" rather than just thinking of it as a "shopping list" ;)

In particular, the size range and the 120 Hz requests - those really indicated to me that timoteo is after a certain experience, but might not have been totally sure on what specs would give him that experience.

The size of the display is of particular importance. I can certainly agree that if a 50" screen size is the best size for timoteo that the Pioneer KRP-500M Kuro plasma is a lock as the best display. It's stellar in a dark room, it's also great in a bright room and in every other facet of display quality, it is just excellent and at the top of any list of 50" displays!

But what if timoteo has a distance of 8 feet from eyes to screen? Personally, I would recommend a display in the 58" - 63" range so that he can have his "ideal" screen size and really reap the benefits of full 1080p resolution. The 60" KRP-600M would be amazing in such a case, but its $3000+ price would put it well over timoteo's desired $2200 budget. Then again, he might be willing to up the budget for such a wonderful display...who knows?

But if the $2200 budget is a "hard cap" and the viewing distance dictates a larger screen size, something other than a KRP Kuro plasma might become the best choice. If the room is dim, perhaps a 58" Panasonic or Samsung plasma. If the room is bright, perhaps a 55" LG or Sony LCD. Will any of those be as good in every metric as a Kuro plasma? No. But screen size and budget are BIG concerns and they can require a little bit of compromise sometimes :)

Anywho, that's why it's so important to ask about the viewing conditions and to hear back from timoteo before making any strong recommendations. There's certainly nothing wrong with making suggestions that fit a person's list of requirements. But sometimes, people don't really know what questions they should be asking or what requirements they should have on their list so that they really get the experience that they want :)
 
timoteo

timoteo

Audioholic General
You know actually FR nailed my question, with his response, to a "T." I really appreciated the facts and the educating information. To be honest...now i have a lot to think about with respects my viewing distance, room lighting/reflection & what i want out of this upcoming purchase.

My wife & i are waiting to hear whether we got accepted to move into a new place. So far 6yrs of marrage & 3 apts under our belt and if we do end up moving it will be into a house. The living room in this place is awsome with a good size spot on the wall right above the fireplace...hence the question about a new TV.

Id love a PJ in a dedicated room but not for this application.

If all works out then we wil be about 10'-13' from the display. The room will be bright during the day but we like curtains so that can be controlled. The $2200 is pretty much the most we can do but id be willing to budge a few bucks if absolutely needed.

So do the newer plasmas still have bad burning issues?
Still a little confused on the "blooming" thing. My current flat tube tv leaves a split second ghosted image when the scenes change. Most noticable when a scene goes from bright to dark. Is that something different then blooming?

The reason i had mentioned 120hz was because i understood that the better the refresh rate the clearer the picture would be when there is a lot of movement/action.

Im gonna look into the 50" KURO u guys have been talking about. There was a shop i was in a week ago and the guy was telling me the same. He said he could possibly get me one if i acted soon but no promises.

Thanks again FR for answering with so much detail. there was a grip that i didnt know. That helped me a lot!!
 
C

clouso

Banned
You know actually FR nailed my question, with his response, to a "T." I really appreciated the facts and the educating information. To be honest...now i have a lot to think about with respects my viewing distance, room lighting/reflection & what i want out of this upcoming purchase.

My wife & i are waiting to hear whether we got accepted to move into a new place. So far 6yrs of marrage & 3 apts under our belt and if we do end up moving it will be into a house. The living room in this place is awsome with a good size spot on the wall right above the fireplace...hence the question about a new TV.

Id love a PJ in a dedicated room but not for this application.

If all works out then we wil be about 10'-13' from the display. The room will be bright during the day but we like curtains so that can be controlled. The $2200 is pretty much the most we can do but id be willing to budge a few bucks if absolutely needed.

So do the newer plasmas still have bad burning issues?
Still a little confused on the "blooming" thing. My current flat tube tv leaves a split second ghosted image when the scenes change. Most noticable when a scene goes from bright to dark. Is that something different then blooming?

The reason i had mentioned 120hz was because i understood that the better the refresh rate the clearer the picture would be when there is a lot of movement/action.

Im gonna look into the 50" KURO u guys have been talking about. There was a shop i was in a week ago and the guy was telling me the same. He said he could possibly get me one if i acted soon but no promises.

Thanks again FR for answering with so much detail. there was a grip that i didnt know. That helped me a lot!!
i have experienced ''blooming'' myself and it is when a bright object or light is on a dark background it makes some kind of a white cloud all around the object and this affect very much the PQ in darker scenes...it is true that some led lcd's are worst then others for ''blooming'' but i read that all led lcd's have that issue so that is why im not recommeding it to you..i had that toshiba led with local dimming and had to exchange it for the panny plasma...and all im saying is that i should have gone with plasma right away since my listening room can be pretty dim when i need it.....good luck again!
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
You're most welcome, timoteo :)

To answer some of your questions:

Strictly speaking, "burn-in" on a plasma is still a remote possibility. But with current plasmas from Pioneer, Panasonic, Samsung and LG, burn-in almost never happens.

I've been talking with a number of salespeople lately. The consensus has been that they still get the odd plasma display returned due to "burn-in". In many cases, it has not actually been burn-in. Burn-in is a permanent after-image or "ghost image". Apparently, quite a few of the "burn-in" returns have just been "image retention", which appears as a similar "ghost image", but it actually goes away, so there is no permanent damage. In the very few legitimate cases of "burn-in", the displays have always been put into their brightest output mode (often called "Vivid") and, no doubt, left on with a non-moving, bright image for an extremely long time.

Bottom line is that burn-in is no longer a serious concern with current plasma displays :)

clouso explained the "blooming" issue with LED backlit LCD displays. It is not the same thing as the "split second ghost image" that you described seeing with your CRT. The blooming is like a "halo" of light that surrounds a bright image on a dark background.

Your split second ghost image is the result of the phosphors in your television not discharging fast enough and continuing to emit some light even after the signal has told them to go dark. The same thing can happen with some plasma displays. Both plasma and CRT use phosphors to create light output.

As I mentioned, having a 120 Hz or 240 Hz refresh rate on an LCD display doesn't directly affect the appearance of "motion blur". Blur is created by a slow pixel response time. The benefits of a 120 Hz or 240 Hz LCD display are being able to show film or 24p content without judder and (in most cases) being able to create an artificially "smooth" sensation of motion with Frame Interpolation. Many 120 Hz LCD displays might look a bet clearer with fast motion than their 60 Hz counterparts. But not because of the 120 Hz refresh rate. The improvement comes from the fact that many 120 Hz LCD displays ALSO have a faster pixel response time ;)

The 50" KRP-500M is definitely available online for within your budget. The KRP is a "special" Kuro display in that it was not originally part of Pioneer's North American consumer lineup. But once they stopped making displays and decided to get out of the display business altogether, they started releasing the KRP models in North American for consumer sales.

The KRP-500M is almost identical to the Signature Elite PRO-101FD Monitor. Being a Monitor, it does NOT come with speakers, nor does it come with a stand. So in order to watch the KRP-500M (or PRO-101FD for that matter), you MUST purchase either a table-top stand or a wall-mount separately. As a Monitor, it also does NOT come with any NTSC or ATSC tuners. So in order to watch television, you MUST use an outboard tuner such as a cable box, satellite box or digital antenna converter.

In terms of differences between the KRP-500M and the PRO-101FD, there are only a few. The KRP has only 2 HDMI inputs; the PRO-101FD has 4. But the KRP has a DVI input while the PRO-101FD does not have a DVI input. The KRP does have an ethernet port, but its only use is for a web app that allows you to check some service settings. The PRO-101FD has an ethernet port that allows you to stream content (pictures, music) over your home network from your connected PC.

Other than that, they are the same. And given the rather large price difference, the KRP-500M is a tremendous deal!

Now, one consideration is still going to be your viewing distance. If you're expecting to have a 10 foot or greater distance from eyes to screen, I would definitely want you to at least consider a larger screen size. You might be limited in terms of the physical space available on that spot above the fireplace that you described. But if there is physical room, if you are 10 feet away, you would want to opt for at least a 58" screen size, and that would be on the small end of the "recommended size" scale!

So here's where I would stand at the moment:

if you decide that a 50" screen size is large enough for you, then there is no better choice than the Pioneer KRP-500M in terms of picture quality. Regardless of whether your room is bright or dark, this is simply the best picture quality out there right now. Blur, ghosting and burn-in are complete non-issues with the Pioneer Kuro plasmas and the KRP-500M also has a 72 Hz mode for film and 24p sources so that you can watch them without judder.

If you decide that you want a larger screen size because of your viewing distance, however, then things change. If you can afford to bump your budget up considerably, of course the KRP-600M 60" Kuro monitor remains the top choice. The Panasonic TC-P58V10 is still over your $2200 budget, but might be within reach depending on your "wiggle" room :) I have my concerns with using Panasonic's plasmas in a well-lit room though. Reflections are not too bad, but they are definitely more noticeable than on the Pioneer Kuro plasmas. More concerning is that the Panasonic plasmas have a bit of trouble with black level retention. In a well-lit room, the shade of black looks more grey on the Panasonic plasmas. The Panny plasmas look fantastic in a dim or dark room - they are very, very close to the Kuro plasmas. But in a well-lit or bright room, they definitely do not retain as deep a level of black. So a bit of a tough call, because it depends entirely upon your lighting levels and your own tolerance of grey-looking blacks.

But if a really big 65" size is what you're after, a Panasonic plasma pretty much becomes your only affordable choice. The TC-P65S1 or TC-P58S1 offer a whole lot of screen size for very low prices. They are not quite the equal in picture quality of the higher end V10 series or the Kuro plasmas, but they still look excellent and offer tremendous size and quality for the price!

If the room is truly bright though, and you still want larger size and lower price, then I think you would do well to consider a 55" LG LCD, such as the 55LH40. You're definitely giving up some picture quality, but it is the sort of picture quality loss that really is not very noticeable in a bright room. LG's LCDs are very well suited to a bright room IMO because they use a very effective matte screen surface that really cuts down on glare and reflections. and while the black levels are definitely not as deep and the uniformity across the screen is a bit lacking, those types of deficiencies are not really noticed when the room is bright. And the LG LCDs make up for it in areas that really stand out in a bright room such as very good colour accuracy and good contrast.

So those would be the displays to consider in my opinion. Best of luck in your search!
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
dont make the same mistake then me...go plasma right away!...i bought a led with local dimming at first and the ''blooming'' issue that all led lcd's have came out....blooming is when a bright object is on a dark background it makes some kind of a white cloud and it is so annoying!...you should go on panasonic.com and see there..you could even get a tc-p50v10 for 2100$ i think..the v10 series is the best hdtv that came out this year and also check the g10 series wich comes very close behind the v10...that is my opinion...good luck!
So just because you have had the blooming factor happen on your LCD means everyone is going to have it??? :confused: I hate to burst your bubble but you are more in the minority than you know. :rolleyes:
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
But what if timoteo has a distance of 8 feet from eyes to screen? Personally, I would recommend a display in the 58" - 63" range so that he can have his "ideal" screen size and really reap the benefits of full 1080p resolution. The 60" KRP-600M would be amazing in such a case, but its $3000+ price would put it well over timoteo's desired $2200 budget. Then again, he might be willing to up the budget for such a wonderful display...who knows?

QUOTE]

Are you sure about those distances? I was 6' away from my 47" screen and I found that still to be too close. I found my eyes scanning the screen back and forth from that distance. My 47" is now 10" feet away and its perfect. No more scanning the screen to get the whole picture.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Just to add on a PJ approach. If you can hook up the system on a back wall than it's a viable option since you can shelf mount the projector. I say this because many folks eliminate this choice even when it's still a viable option. As a person who moves a lot a PJ is the best option due to it's light weight and flexibility. I'm an unconventional guy, but I didn't want you to rule out the possibility. Evaluate every option and then determine what fits your needs. Get the cheapest option meeting those requirements. Your tv will depreciate very fast.
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
I love front projection too. I often recommend front projection setups where the viewing environment will facilitate them because they allow for substantially larger screen sizes at very reasonable prices. But it is only in rare cases (in my experience) that a front projection system works well in a living room. Most people just don't want to make their living room pitch black - or as close to pitch black as possible. For dedicated theatres, it's often a much better choice! But for a living room setup, the amount of light during the day is usually too bright to allow a front projection system to look good.
 
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