Are audiophiles the most gullable of hobbyists

[WmAx]

If the speakers had very similar frequency responses, would people be able to pick out which speaker is which every time in a double-blinded audio test?

As a lone factor, a single frequency response measurement does not give sufficient information to make such a prediction. Even if you listened only in an anechoic chamber, in which off axis response differences are not relevant, then you still need to address resonance behaviour and non-linear distortion(s)[at moderate to high SPL].

-Chris

 

[avaserfi]

I urge anyone who really wants to learn about DBT on loudspeakers to read Loudspaker Measurements and Their Relationship to Listener Preference both parts one and two as well as Listening Tests - Turning Opinion into Fact and lastly Subjective Measurements of Loudspeaker Sound Quality and Listener Performance all by Floyd Toole.

If one really wants to grasp the idea of what doing appropriate DBT tests with speakers these sources are imperative as you will gain an understanding of what makes a loudspeaker perceptually enjoyable as well as what actual specifications about a given loudspeaker mean more real world perception of good than others. All these articles can be found at the AES although you would have to pay for them. Otherwise you can go to a library and check out the actual printed journals.

As far as DBTing an expensive pair of speakers and a less expensive pair of speakers there will likely be a difference heard. You are possibly mistaking a found difference for being better and also more expensive for being better. While at the bottom of the price spectrum many speakers must have some compromises inherent in design to be sold at a profit a pair of $250,000 dollar speakers is likely far beyond that point while a pair of $5,000 might just be getting to the point where compromises need not be made depending on the companies size. So just because a speaker is more expensive does not mean any more time was spent engineering the drivers or the cabinet itself it all comes down to design and implementation as in the end it seems many speaker manufacturers ignore or disregard some of the most important perceptual research to date.

 

[rnatalli]

I saw Elvis today at the mall. Any takers?

 

[Adam]

I saw Elvis today at the mall. Any takers?

Did you get an autograph? If it's on ERS paper, I'll buy it. The King, baby. Can't top that.

 

[gliz]

sound, like taste is subjective. as far as the speaker comparison goes. A good speaker design is a good speaker design. it it uses good components and craftsmanship a lesser priced set of speakers should sound great.quite frankly I am not impressed with an $11,000 set of speakers that sound good, they BETTER!
Another point about all the cable jazz. here in the PC world we do not have "high performance" PC cables. You do not hear claims of printer cables offering brighter colors and sharper text. a well built cable will do what it is "sposta" do.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Have you guys ever seen a $500 speaker getting bad reviews?
I'm sure all of us have read hundreds of speaker reveiws. But seems to me like all the reviews are very positive. I've never read a review that said a $1,000 pr of speakers was "not very good".
So what's the take home message to someone trying to decide which speakers to buy, except to audition for himself?

That when you spend at least $1,000 on a pr of speakers, they will all sound very good?

 

[stratman]

Ouch. While my skeet gun is only a Beretta with Briley tubes, my trap and sporting clays guns are both Perazzi. Perhaps I shouldn't admit that, huh? While the Perazzi might not shoot any better, it will do wonders in the pride-of-ownership department. Nothing wrong with that.

Nothing wrong with 150lb. Class A power amplifiers either.

As nice and "jewel" like as they are, they won't make you a better shot. Pride of ownership is a totally different animal, I own Krell and Proceed equipment, seen by many as over priced eye-candy, to certain degree they're correct, but I like how it looks, not that it sounds any better than an equally designed and deployed amp of lesser cost. By the way I happen to like Perazzi shotguns and at one time I was very close to (pardon the pun)pulling the trigger on a Sporting Model, but after I saw the "club" mentality of the groups where I shoot, I refuse out of principle to "belong," perhaps in a different setting I'd spring for a Perazzi, but I rather be "the guy" with the "cheap-a$$" Browning that makes them look bad.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

That when you spend at least $1,000 on a pr of speakers, they will all sound very good?

No. There are, however, some speakers at that price that are so good that I can't see how they could be improved on, even for 10X as much. (Def Tech BP10s are an example.)

 

[agarwalro]

Gullibility is a personality trait. If someone is gullible regarding audio – video, that person probably gets taken for a ride a lot, in all spheres of life.

Some broad generalizations that come to mind are,

Automotive: "License plate blocking clear sprays"
Computer Gaming: "This mouse/ mouse pad will improve your gaming skills"
Photography: "12.1 MP or nothing"
.
.
.
My personal favs,
Audio: "CD de-magnetizer"
Audio: "Magic pebbles"

 

[cmusic]

Sometimes more expensive stuff only means it is different, not necessarily better.

 

[fmw]

As nice and "jewel" like as they are, they won't make you a better shot. Pride of ownership is a totally different animal, I own Krell and Proceed equipment, seen by many as over priced eye-candy, to certain degree they're correct, but I like how it looks, not that it sounds any better than an equally designed and deployed amp of lesser cost. By the way I happen to like Perazzi shotguns and at one time I was very close to (pardon the pun)pulling the trigger on a Sporting Model, but after I saw the "club" mentality of the groups where I shoot, I refuse out of principle to "belong," perhaps in a different setting I'd spring for a Perazzi, but I rather be "the guy" with the "cheap-a$$" Browning that makes them look bad.

I think you're taking things pretty seriously down in Florida. I've never heard anybody be criticized because he bought a Perazzi or Krieghoff or a Browning or any other brand. The Perazzis have nice fit and finish, strong locks, nice wood but, as you say, the pellets exit the muzzle exactly the same way.

I have a grade VI Browning Citori 20 Ga. skeet gun that I actually use for upland game hunting. I always shoot skeet with the tubed Beretta. I've had people worry about my scratching it because it looks so fancy with all the engraving and polished highly grained wood. Actually it cost $1600 at a gun show which isn't that much for an U/O shotgun. I have a Browning Citori 28 ga. sporting clays gun in grade II as well and it is great fun to shoot. It is one of my favorites. I also have a Beretta 2 barrel set for Trap - 34" single and 32" doubles. The last time I won a handicap I won it with the Beretta, not the Perazzi.

Personally, I've never heard a negative word about Brownings or Berettas anywhere. I think most shooters consider them excellent guns. I do. But just like you enjoy listening to music amplified by a Krell, I enjoy the feel and pleasure of shooting the Perazzi guns. You will too when you "pull the trigger."

 

[mtrycrafts]

What about a $280,000 pair of speakers versus a $5,000 pair of speakers?
What would a double-blinded comparison test reveal?

Don't know in advance, but I bet it would not be favorable to the expensive speakers. Toole has shown that price is far from an indicator of highly rated speakers under DBT.

 

[Seth=L]

1.)Tosslinkvs Coax: tosslinks sounds softer and warmer than coax. Really?

The digital quantization (turkey time) of Toslink makes is sound softer. The 0s and 1s are fed turkey meat to make them fatter and slower, giving it that classic tube sound.

 

[markw]

What more need I say?

http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina60.htm

Q.E.D.

 

[highfihoney]

Yup,true audiophiles are the most gulible hobbiests ive ran accross in any hobby.

Nothing makes me happier than running across a true audiophile who's dying to get new peice of gear & the only thing holding them up is selling last years gear,this is where i come in & milk em like a fat cow

Audiophiles paid for my gear collection,bless their lil hearts

 

[Seth=L]

Yup,true audiophiles are the most gulible hobbiests ive ran accross in any hobby.

Nothing makes me happier than running across a true audiophile who's dying to get new peice of gear & the only thing holding them up is selling last years gear,this is where i come in & milk em like a fat cow

Audiophiles paid for my gear collection,bless their lil hearts

Careful, with all that nice stuff you have you may be confused with an audiophile.

 

[Alex2507]

Yup,true audiophiles are the most gulible hobbiests ive ran accross in any hobby.

Nothing makes me happier than running across a true audiophile who's dying to get new peice of gear & the only thing holding them up is selling last years gear,this is where i come in & milk em like a fat cow

Audiophiles paid for my gear collection,bless their lil hearts

I need to meet some audiophiles who have upgrade-itis. Thanks for the idea.

 

[highfihoney]

I need to meet some audiophiles who have upgrade-itis. Thanks for the idea.

Just go to Audiogon on a daily basis,you'll see for sale ads where the seller says they need to move the current gear in a hurry,the ads marked as best offer are wonderfull.

 

[jliedeka]

I would have to agree that it is not just audiophiles. I have a number of expensive hobbies but I'm a bang for the buck guy.

I'm a moderator on CoffeeGeek, a site for people into espresso, home roasting, etc. Some people spend oodles of money and have to have their kitchens wired for 220 and/or 20 amps to run their high end espresso machines. I have a $450 espresso machine that pulls shots just as good as a $10000 machine, I just can't pull several in a row as fast.

I have a bunch of guitars and haven't spent more than $1000 on any one of them. Most were far less and sound as good as I need them to.

On the other hand, there can be a pride of ownership issue as well. When I bought my first wheel gun, I got a mid-80s Smith & Wesson used when I could have gotten a new Taurus for the same amount of money. It's cooler owning a Smith, I think.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

No. There are, however, some speakers at that price that are so good that I can't see how they could be improved on, even for 10X as much. (Def Tech BP10s are an example.)

The DT BP10s look too good to be true---on paper at least. 20Hz-20kHz +/-5dB is pretty good for $500 retail ($400 street).

Which would you pick: 5 BP10s + 1 SuperCube Trinity = $4,000 or
2 BP7000SCs + 1 CLR3000 + 2 BPVX/Ps = $4,600 ?