Are 4 10in Subs better than 2 12s?

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duffer41

Audiophyte
Hello - I am looking to upgrade my setup to either 2 pb 2000s or a quad RSL 10s setup (2 front stage and 2 behind the rear seating area). My room is a dedicated theater that is 15ft deep by 13ft wide and 8ft in height. I have a limitation on sub woofer placement and the 6 year old dual SVS 10s I have now do not solve for base dead zones in the theater. I was thinking that 4 subs would do the trick or two larger front stage subs. What would be the best solution for this?
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Hello - I am looking to upgrade my setup to either 2 pb 2000s or a quad RSL 10s setup (2 front stage and 2 behind the rear seating area). My room is a dedicated theater that is 15ft deep by 13ft wide and 8ft in height. I have a limitation on sub woofer placement and the 6 year old dual SVS 10s I have now do not solve for base dead zones in the theater. I was thinking that 4 subs would do the trick or two larger front stage subs. What would be the best solution for this?
The problem is that the RSL subs don't dig very deep compared to the SVS subs. I would be looking at PC-2000s from SVS for more placement flexibility; start with two and add more to flatten out the response as you need it.
 
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snakeeyes

Audioholic Samurai
Or 16 - 8in? Ok couldn’t resist. LOL :)

I would think the PB2000 in dual would be great in that small of a space.
 
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duffer41

Audiophyte
I had not thought of the pc 2000, I will have to see if I have a height limitation on placement. They do have 2 sb4000s marked off significantly due to heavy cosmetic blemishes. Would those be worth the budget stretch over the pc 2000s? Use is 95% movies, and video games.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Warlord
I have a limitation on sub woofer placement and the 6 year old dual SVS 10s I have now do not solve for base dead zones in the theater.
If you are limited to the same two locations, getting better subs is unlikely to eliminate dead zones.
Have you tried locating these two subs in all combinations of the four locations you would use if you had 4 subs?
The dead zones you are experiencing have nothing to do with any short-comings of the 10s and everything to do with the locations of the subs!
So, if you haven't already, if you have 4 locations that we'll call A, B, C, & D; try the following 6 pairs:
AB
AC
AD
BC
BD
CD
If any of these fix the problem, go with 2 12" subs, if not, add a third 10", then a 4th.
Measurements help you assess the different configurations, but in the end it is trial and error, and (reality check) after getting 4, there is a possibility you will need to get creative with finding more viable locations before you get satisfaction!
 
Last edited:
Hamid Khan

Hamid Khan

Junior Audioholic
I like to reinforced KEW comment above, with addition of a link and another option for placement of the subs. However, I would follow the process explained in the link, positioning one subwoofer at a time in the favorable locations.

Here

If possible, you can try both methods, and from there you can move on to the other step, changing out your subs, or adding subs for more out put and balancing the low frequency response across your room.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Ninja
I'm a big fan of the crawling it out. If you are willing to let your ears and the rooms acoustics work for you, you can probably find two great homes for your current subs that will give you very even bass at you LPs, :)
 
HTfreak2004

HTfreak2004

Senior Audioholic
I'm a big fan of the crawling it out. If you are willing to let your ears and the rooms acoustics work for you, you can probably find two great homes for your current subs that will give you very even bass at you LPs, :)
I found myself first rolling about on the floor then afterwards “crawling it out” last night actually!

See I was watching Don’t Breath on Netflix and with all that low frequency effects through out failed to realize my wife’s FUTILE and I do mean FUTILE attempts to get me to turn down my gear!

So the part of the movie where the Rottweiler is finally in the hallway I decided to up the volume to full reference level from my regular -20 and literally with in 5 seconds as the Rottie ran across the hall towards the teen my boss whipped the door open and said,
“Are you deaf:mad:
I’m telling ya boys that movie came to life that moment!
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Ninja
Hello - I am looking to upgrade my setup to either 2 pb 2000s or a quad RSL 10s setup (2 front stage and 2 behind the rear seating area). My room is a dedicated theater that is 15ft deep by 13ft wide and 8ft in height. I have a limitation on sub woofer placement and the 6 year old dual SVS 10s I have now do not solve for base dead zones in the theater. I was thinking that 4 subs would do the trick or two larger front stage subs. What would be the best solution for this?
Just curious how you determined the dead zones. It’s possible that the “dead zones” were flat, but you were accustomed to peaks in other areas making the flat zones sound dead and flat. It’s also possible the XO region is the problem. That can be helped sometimes by incrementally adding half a foot at a time to the sub distance in the AVR.(raising or lowering the XO can also help) This can also help impulse response. Also, playing to what I just meantioned, do you know what frequency range is “dead? Or just guessing?
As @KEW said, if your absolutely stuck with placement, bigger subs won’t likely help with nulls, unless the new subs extend deeper and don’t suffer from nulls due to the room and their placement. Where my advice differs from his is that I wouldn’t add another “10” to see what happens. The phase relationship between the old ones, and the speedwoofer will certainly be different and you would end up with worse problems. You could possibly find another of the same old ones you have but imo, the long game is to upgrade.
I like the PC2k suggestion. Great performance, easy to move around and IMO more interesting to look at than a box. The speedwoofers are excellent, and four of them might work since the room isn’t that big. If I were you, I’d call Joe Rodgers at RSL. SUPER nice guy, and very very helpful. Won’t sell you what you don’t need.(they are also working on a bigger sub too) Also, talk to @Ed Mullen. SVS also has legendary CS and you won’t be steered wrong.
 
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duffer41

Audiophyte
I like to reinforced KEW comment above, with addition of a link and another option for placement of the subs. However, I would follow the process explained in the link, positioning one subwoofer at a time in the favorable locations.

Here

If possible, you can try both methods, and from there you can move on to the other step, changing out your subs, or adding subs for more out put and balancing the low frequency response across your room.
Very helpful, I will do this and then re-evaluate.

Recommendations on 12-13in subs that are no more than 19in wide and 20in deep?
 
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snakeeyes

Audioholic Samurai
Those PB2000s have that Mad Max metal grill look! :)
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
Very helpful, I will do this and then re-evaluate.

Recommendations on 12-13in subs that are no more than 19in wide and 20in deep?
The PB2000 doesn't fit that criteria particularly....I like the PC idea in your size room, smaller footprint should help I'd think.
 
HTfreak2004

HTfreak2004

Senior Audioholic
Hello - I am looking to upgrade my setup to either 2 pb 2000s or a quad RSL 10s setup (2 front stage and 2 behind the rear seating area). My room is a dedicated theater that is 15ft deep by 13ft wide and 8ft in height. I have a limitation on sub woofer placement and the 6 year old dual SVS 10s I have now do not solve for base dead zones in the theater. I was thinking that 4 subs would do the trick or two larger front stage subs. What would be the best solution for this?
Of course 4 subs are better than one!
Why do you think paradigm put 6 into their sub 1 and sub 2 enclosure
A45F331A-595F-4AF2-B424-9BE94185EA6A.png
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Ninja
Of course 4 subs are better than one!
Why do you think paradigm put 6 into their sub 1 and sub 2 enclosure View attachment 32566
Ummm...
That's just 1 Sub.
Sure, it has 6 Drivers... but just 1 Sub. (Ie, Driver colocation does not equal multiple Subs placed in a strategic assymmetrical arrangement in the room in order excite as many Room Modes as possible, thus minimizing as many nulls/cancelations as possible, thereby creating a more even LF performance across the Listening Area.)
;)

Now if Deep Sea could take that and build it with their SI Drivers... I'd settle for the 12" variety... and take 3.

1575418540862.png
 
HTfreak2004

HTfreak2004

Senior Audioholic
Ummm...
That's just 1 Sub.
Sure, it has 6 Drivers... but just 1 Sub. (Ie, Driver colocation does not equal multiple Subs placed in a strategic assymmetrical arrangement in the room in order excite as many Room Modes as possible, thus minimizing as many nulls/cancelations as possible, thereby creating a more even LF performance across the Listening Area.)
;)

Now if Deep Sea could take that and build it with their SI Drivers... I'd settle for the 12" variety... and take 3.

View attachment 32570
I took my smart ass pill today before that post ;)

It’s a beautiful sub though:)
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Ninja
Ummm...
That's just 1 Sub.
Sure, it has 6 Drivers... but just 1 Sub. (Ie, Driver colocation does not equal multiple Subs placed in a strategic assymmetrical arrangement in the room in order excite as many Room Modes as possible, thus minimizing as many nulls/cancelations as possible, thereby creating a more even LF performance across the Listening Area.)
;)

Now if Deep Sea could take that and build it with their SI Drivers... I'd settle for the 12" variety... and take 3.

View attachment 32570
If I do another DIY subwoofer, it’s gonna be based around this.

 

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