Arcam AVR350

[greggp2]

I'd like to get some feedback on peoples' opinion on the Arcam AVR350/300 or 280. I'm looking for opinions of people who have demoed one of these units and their thoughts compared to the newer receivers with HD audio and video switching.

With Analogue inputs from Blu-ray, mostly all HD or digital sources and an HDMI video switchbox, wouldn't the SQ be better on this unit than comparable receivers from other manufacturers costing up to $3,000?

I'm really most interested in people that have heard or demoed the AVR350, but the other units will provide a good comparison as well.

Thanks....

 

[CraigV]

I’ve not heard firsthand one of these units, but I did do a lot of research into them. Every review I read on Arcam in general (amps, pre-amps, receivers) have lauded their sound quality as being superior to “mass market” brands in that their equipment does everything right – that is to say they come very close to the ultimate goal of making their equipment sound as neutral as possible. The ability to take the incoming signal and amplify it without adding or taking anything away sounds like it should be easy, but can be very illusive.

As for using the analog out of a BD player, that is the route I have chosen, and so far so good. I have resigned myself to the fact that I can’t afford what I really want, but that what I have is still quite good, and better than most. Ideally, you want a D – A converter & surround processor that can keep pace with the incoming signal, but do justice to the sounds by not adding or detracting any part of it. I chose the Panasonic BD55 as it is touted as having a robust D – A section. Not up to snuff with the latest offerings from the higher end manufacturers, but it still does a good job.

 

[tcfish19]

You may want to check out avforums.com. It's a British site and a lot more Arcam owners on it. I was headed down the ARV-600 road till I started reading on that site. I now have the RX-Z7, just received today. Basically what swayed me was how many people said the only difference in the high end Yamaha and the Arcam AVR-600 was the 2 channel presentation. There are also a few people that switched from the AVR-350 to either the Z7 or AVR-600 that thought that the upgrade was worth it.

Since with Movies it's a wash and my 2 channel listening is for enjoyment and not critical listening. Saving, for me, 3.3K was a no brainer so now I own the Z7.

One last thing, the analog section on the Panasonic 55 I didn't like. I found the Oppo to be much better. If you do get the AVR-350 do yourself a favor and spend a little extra on at least the Oppo Blu-Ray due in a month. I'm looking forward to hooking my Panasonic up HDMI and getting away from the analog.

 

[greggp2]

I'm with you on the Oppo... I am awaiting official release after the beta test to order, but as soon as it's available, I'm getting one. I'm going to punt my Denon 3910 when I do get it, which is what I currently use for DVD and CD listening.

I had a Yamaha RX-3900 and am returning it today. This is one step down from the RX-Z7. I also have my mains being powered by an Emotiva XPA-2. Power was never an issue, but the Yamaha made my speakers sound too bright as compared to how they sounded with my older Rotel receiver. Don't get me wrong, the Yamaha is a great receiver and the Z7 is even better. For your application, depending on your speakers, I think you did the right thing by ordering the Z7 over the AVR600. I think the AVR600 is very expensive and isn't worth spending the extra coin for video processing and HD formats over the AVR350.

Truthfully, I really am not a huge fan of running Audio through HDMI anyway. To me, it's similar to running it through Optical cables. You have to compress the data, and then uncompress it at the other end.

Optical and HDMI audio has never sounded as good to me as Coaxal and Analog Audio, so I think I'll be pretty happy with the Avr350.. At least I am hoping so...

 

[rnatalli]

Arcam makes fine units. Great amp sections, built like tanks... But for the money, I believe there are better options. I see you have an Emotiva XPA-2. Why not pair it with the upcoming UMC-1?

 

[PENG]

I have only listened to the AVR300. It sounded great with the speakers in the domo room including the Energy Veritas. I bought the Veritas, and as expected they sounded just as good (obviously not an A/B comparison) with the Denon I had at the time. I wasn't surprised because I knew this thing about some receivers are more musical or warmer than others are typically not factual if they are within the same price range. The AVR300 wasn't very heavy but it was supposedly 4 ohms capable.

 

[greggp2]

Arcam makes fine units. Great amp sections, built like tanks... But for the money, I believe there are better options. I see you have an Emotiva XPA-2. Why not pair it with the upcoming UMC-1?

That was an option for me, however, the UMC-1 won't be released until the summer according Emotiva. I really couldn't wait that long, so I am pulling the trigger on the Arcam for now. When the UMC-1 is released, I may try it out, depending on how things are going with the Arcam.

 

[dronezero]

I can't help you too much as I've never heard an Arcam, but I do remember reading a comment from a fellow (it was a long time ago on another board) who had owned both an Arcam AVR 350 and a Cambridge Audio receiver (either the 640r or 540r). He had nothing but good things to say about the Arcam, but he also said that the CA sounded quite similar and only costs a fraction of the Arcam. I know it is not, by any means, a reliable source here, but I just thought that if you were looking for another option CA may be something to look at.

 

[greggp2]

Thanks guys. Anyone else?

 

[greggp2]

Does anyone think that the Amps on the Arcam AVR350 would sound better than powering my mains with the Emotiva XPA-2 and using the Arcam Amp's for the rest?

 

[CraigV]

I have only listened to the AVR300. It sounded great with the speakers in the domo room including the Energy Veritas. I bought the Veritas, and as expected they sounded just as good (obviously not an A/B comparison) with the Denon I had at the time. I wasn't surprised because I knew this thing about some receivers are more musical or warmer than others are typically not factual if they are within the same price range.

But what about the people who say they can hear a difference – a real audible difference between equipment? Are they hearing something that isn’t really there, or are they more sensitive to the subtleties which most people don’t tune into?

I say this because I believe I am one of those people who is hyper-sensitive about things. I can tell when my gas tank is near empty not because of the gas gauge, but because of how the car rides & feels. I also know if one of my tires is 1 PSI too low. I can pick up my bass guitar, and know if a string is out of tune even a little just by pressing it down on the neck. I notice when a picture hanging on the wall is slightly off level. I can feel the pressure difference walking from the first to the third floor of the building where I work.
And yes, I hear a very real difference in amplifiers, pre-amps, cables…etal.

If I sound like I’m bragging, I’m not. Quite the contrary, I feel it’s more of a curse than anything. I wish I could be satisfied by a HTIB. I also wish I could be more like my wife – when we sit down to watch a movie, I’m always listening for detail I believe should be present, looking to see if a scene is properly lit, wondering if the surround effects are being portrayed properly in space, thinking about whether or not I should move my speakers, or even change my equipment for something different.
Meanwhile, my wife isn’t stressing about those trivial things – she’s into watching the film, which is as it should be. Yes, I believe I get more out of the experience with the Hi-Def display, BD player, amp, speakers…I just wish I could accept that what I have is good, relax & enjoy the movie.

 

[greggp2]

And I thought I was bad...

So are you saying that you think the Arcam is better than other receivers?

 

[CraigV]

And I thought I was bad...

So are you saying that you think the Arcam is better than other receivers?

I know I’ll catch flack for this, but in my experience:

Onkyo, Yamaha, Pioneer, Sony, Denon, Marantz


Harman Kardon


B&K, Rotel, Arcam, Sunfire

…and since you have the car you do pictured, remember – watts is to horsepower as amperage is to torque. I believe an amps capabilities to deliver current when & where needed is a very important consideration.

 

[greggp2]

Craig,

Did you list the receivers in any particular order? Are you grouping them into categories? B&K, Rotel, Arcam and Sunfire being the top? Your posting isn't clear. Or are you saying the Onkyo, Yamaha, Pioneer, Sony, Denon and Marantz are the best?

Your last comment, about Amperage, you think I'm best suited using the Arcam to power my Center and rears and the Emotiva XPA-2 to power my mains? Obviously, I would calibrate with an SPL meter...

 

[CraigV]

Craig,

Did you list the receivers in any particular order? Are you grouping them into categories? B&K, Rotel, Arcam and Sunfire being the top? Your posting isn't clear. Or are you saying the Onkyo, Yamaha, Pioneer, Sony, Denon and Marantz are the best?

Your last comment, about Amperage, you think I'm best suited using the Arcam to power my Center and rears and the Emotiva XPA-2 to power my mains? Obviously, I would calibrate with an SPL meter...

Sorry, I meant the Onkyo etal. are very similar, HK is a step up, and the rest are tops in their field (unless Krell has a receiver).

And no, I would not mix any two amps as you suggest. Keep the front three the same, the rears can be different (ideally, all channels should be the same)

 

[greggp2]

Does anyone else have an opinion in this area? There's another forum going right now that states that an Amp is an Amp and should be neutral and not affect sound. If this is the case and an SPL meter is used to level the sound from the front 3, why would it matter if you mix Amps between the fronts and center?

 

[CraigV]

Does anyone else have an opinion in this area? There's another forum going right now that states that an Amp is an Amp and should be neutral and not affect sound. If this is the case and an SPL meter is used to level the sound from the front 3, why would it matter if you mix Amps between the fronts and center?

The very fact that you bought a separate amp & pre-amp (as well as good speakers) says you believe there is an audible difference between equipment. If that were not the case, you would have settled for a receiver that simply had all the features you wanted, and put out a decent amount of power. So why go only half way now?

Part of the larger picture that’s being ignored is this; we’re only speaking about the latter half of the recording chain – from disc to ears. What we’re forgetting about is equally, if not more important. I remember the first test CD Stereophile put out. On it, one of the editors could be heard reading one of his past articles. At the end of every 2 sentences, he switched microphones. All gain levels were set the same, he sat at the same desk, sat equidistance from each mic…etc. The only variable was the mic itself. They did this to illustrate how different each mike made a simple human speaking voice sound. And different it was – each mic imparted a distinct difference to how the speaker’s voice was portrayed.

After hearing this, a great truth struck me – the very first link in the recording change could have a profound effect on what was finally reaching my ears at the end of the chain. Now consider some of the movies you watch. While filming, it’s important to keep the microphone out of the cameras filed of view. So, what’s a sound guy to do? Why, turn up the gain so much that you could hear the fart of a flea! Then there’s the matter of what media is being used to record onto – analog tape? Digital? What’s the digital to analog conversion being used? Then there’s sound mixing (anyone who has watched the BD version of Transformers knows the human voices are at a much lower level than the robots) add sound effects, how the whole thing is mastered onto the disc, what codec is used…all this happens before Joe Consumer can even think about how to reverse the chain, and get what he perceives as the best re-production of the original sound from his system, and within his budget.

Now, consider this. Let’s say you build a small room in your house for the purpose of recording. A friend comes over, and you record them playing a violin. How much equipment, time, money & effort would you have to spend to get the sound of the violin coming out of your chosen playback system to be faithfully re-produced as it was when you heard it being played live? Have you ever just closed your eyes while at home, or at the mall, standing on the street corner, and just listened? Aren’t these the same sounds being re-produced in the movies we watch? And just how close does your system come to being faithful to the original?

Just some food for thought.

 

[greggp2]

Craig,

All very good points. I actually haven't gotten the Arcam yet. I just ordered it. I had purchased a Yamaha 3900, returned it, and just ordered the Arcam. I'm using my old Rotel RSX-1056 for now. I'm just wondering if I should just use the Arcam Amps, or maybe go with the XPA-3, which isn't as powerful and doesn't have the supposed clarity or quickness of the XPA-2... I can still send my XPA back, but obviously if there isn't an audible difference, since my Center channel is different than my mains, just use the Arcam's Amp for my Center channel and rears.

I can tell you are very analytical. Which isn't a bad thing, but like you said earlier, can be a curse...

I drive my girlfriend crazy when we are watching TV, movies and listening to music. There's something to be said to just sitting back and enjoying the content, rather than analyzing it...

 

[CraigV]

Craig,

All very good points. I actually haven't gotten the Arcam yet. I just ordered it. I had purchased a Yamaha 3900, returned it, and just ordered the Arcam. I'm using my old Rotel RSX-1056 for now. I'm just wondering if I should just use the Arcam Amps, or maybe go with the XPA-3, which isn't as powerful and doesn't have the supposed clarity or quickness of the XPA-2... I can still send my XPA back, but obviously if there isn't an audible difference, since my Center channel is different than my mains, just use the Arcam's Amp for my Center channel and rears.

I can tell you are very analytical. Which isn't a bad thing, but like you said earlier, can be a curse...

I drive my girlfriend crazy when we are watching TV, movies and listening to music. There's something to be said to just sitting back and enjoying the content, rather than analyzing it...

It’s more important that your front three all share the same amp.

 

[greggp2]

So my question to you, if you were me... Would you get an XPA-3 instead, or pocket the money and let the Arcam do the Amp work too? I can bi-amp the mains with the Arcam with the 2 assignable amps.